CPMA Bot Question

[a13n]

May I axe a question on cpma bot?
Sometime it eats up CPU resource and decreases FPS drastically.
What is it doing or calculating?
Is this my local problem?
Should I run a bot on my LAN server and connect to it?

[v1l3]

I'm gonna assume that your talking of the level 6-100 bots...but, on my last comp I dealt with things getting real choppy and shakey from them that I could barily play against even one of them. The comp I have now doesn't get that reaction as terribly, yet if I load up too many of them(like for TDM or CTF) it can get pretty sucky. I'd recommend only using them for a duel..which is pretty much what there for.
If you want to load up a bunch of bots I recommend just using level 5 bots, where your fighting their shooting difficulty rather than movement.

Sounds boring, but I don't think that it's something that they won't be able to fix(or who knows)...as who ever expected for there to be such different style bots than the normal in-stock ones.

[Oeloe]

Is this my local problem?
Should I run a bot on my LAN server and connect to it?

No it's not just you experiencing that; CPMA bots with botskill > 5 just take a lot of resources. On some maps it can make the gameplay completely choppy.

Running the bot(s) on a separate/dedicated machine should fix the FPS drops and choppy movement. One would think that the modern dual core CPU's should be able to smoothly run a q3 server with cpma bot and client at the same time, but this appears to be a false notion.

[a13n]

@vile
Yeah, I'm referring to a skill(6) or above bot.
Its movement seems mostly like a cheat.
Because it looks like they are scanning surrounding geometry and deciding where to warp.

@Oeloe
I sometimes launch a remote dedicated server for bot play.
It's really cool to make use of remote PC to solve local problem, isn't it?

[JB]

i played on a 1.2ghz generic PPC chipset comp and i had exactly zero problems with CPMA bots

[Oeloe]

i played on a 1.2ghz generic PPC chipset comp and i had exactly zero problems with CPMA bots

It depends for a big part on the map you're on. cpm3a might be smooth, but on (for example) fjo3tourney1 (Fjogg's nice tourney map) you may have less than zero problems.

[a13n]

Also in a grid-1 test map, FPS varies from 10 to 85, mostly near 10.
Without CPMA Bot it stays 85.

[JB]

cpmctf2 and most of the on-x ctf maps ran rather well, producing a frame rate of about 70 - 80, on tolerable graphics. cpm3a and 1a ran at closer to 100

[InFiNiTe]

I think everything depends on the map. It's because some bots doesn't work on some maps. Usually they only play rly bad, but sometimes they can rly slow u'r cpu, especially when playing against 5 or more of them. Even usual bots have problems on some maps, so there is nothing special to see cpm bots to lag. Hey, they count every inch to maximize strafing speed!

Tough I am playing them on pro-q3dm6, aerowalk, ztn, pukka and other popular maps and didn't even see any problems.

[a13n]

@Oeloe

One would think that the modern dual core CPU's should be able to smoothly run a q3 server with cpma bot and client at the same time, but this appears to be a false notion.

Which means dual core is nothing more than one cpu after all?
And hardcore gamers should never be duped?

@InFiNiTe
Setting up dedicated FFA server for cpma bots really pays off.
It's comfortably busy and fun, especially in official maps.
Even my grid-1 test map can hold 6 bots around 10-50 ping without any stuttering at all. (note: both server and client are dinasour PC)

[Oeloe]

@Oeloe
Which means dual core is nothing more than one cpu after all?
And hardcore gamers should never be duped?

I'm not sure what you mean by that... Edit: wait, I get it now. :icon25:

[a13n]

Never mind. :icon30:

[dzjepp]

Um, Q3 won't ever support dual cpu/optimizations, I mean the command r_smp 1 is totally broken anyway. Unless you take the source yourself and code them in.

[Oeloe]

Um, Q3 won't ever support dual cpu/optimizations, I mean the command r_smp 1 is totally broken anyway. Unless you take the source yourself and code them in.

But, when you run a dedicated server and a connect to it with a client running on the same machine, there are two instances of quake3.exe -- a server and a client (q3ded and quake3 in case of linux).
I just meant the load could be distributed over the 2 cores...

I think r_smp would only help on a listen server or single player q3 session?

[a13n]

@oeloe
With one cpu, I feel a small difference between win & linux on listening.
I mean listener's ping is not zero on linux even though it is displayed so.

[^misantropia^]

I think r_smp would only help on a listen server or single player q3 session?

Yep. All it does is putting the low-level polygon rendering into a separate thread.

[a13n]

So going back to my bot question, how does the value of bot skill affect the bot behaviour?
Do you distinguish between 6 and 7?
Or do you need to raise the value up to 99 or so to detect some kind of noticeable difference?

[Oeloe]

Read docs\Bots.txt, a13n.

Challenge ProMode Arena: Enhanced Bots
--------------------------------------
Date: 28 Apr 03

Well, go figure...
Thanks to Qrealka and Diamant, I've put some effort into the bots.
None of this would have happened if they hadn't been willing to help
out, because it would have taken more time than I have to spare.
Pretty much all the DM AI has been improved over CPMA1.1 with new
decision-making code. The bots are quite a bit smarter than before,
and at times you can even "see" what they're thinking if you watch
them. They're still completely ignorant of many things though, and
unfortunately are still dependent on AAS files, which are invariably
flat out wrong about level connectivity. Swelt or I may write a guide
to how mappers can fix some of the worst problems if we ever get time.
I've ONLY focused on DM, so I expect they're still absolutely awful
at TDM/CTF/etc.

Fixes are generally for the new bots only, but some have been applied
to the standard bots as well if the bug is too pathetic to tolerate.
Those are marked with an 'I' (e.g. the 1.1 RL aim bug was a "fixI")
and are implicitly id bugs, obviously.

The skill thresholds are:
79- has pretty sucky aim
81+ enables evil RL
86+ tries to avoid "bad" RG shots **
bot_challenge 1
enables evil hitscan at skill 91+ after you're open for 0.5-0.25s
doesn't degrade accuracy at close ranges
aims faster after using a tele
does NOT otherwise affect aim skill
uses the "alternate" weapon choices (more hitscan)

** At 86+, you'll see a noticeable jump in hitscan accuracies.
This DOESN'T mean that they've suddenly become all-aim bots. They
actually still only hit as many shots as they do at 85, but since
they FIRE far less often when they know the shot is a "bad" one,
the percentages become much higher.

Skill level also affects movement speed to some extent.

There are some new bots as well, with slightly better strategic
play and some "personal" properties. They can only be used at
skill 6 and above (CPMA AI).

Apheleon
faster than all other bots
has improved RL
uses the "alternate" weapon choices

arQon
only slightly faster than normal bots
has godlike RL
uses RL a LOT

rat (the LPB version)
faster than normal bots
has godlike RL
uses RL a LOT


add: strafejumping, yay!
Qrealka and Diamant get all the credit for this one

add: tanked bots will hunt you down and spawnrape you

add: evil RL prediction (quite ratlike at times :P)

add: a bit of dodging and ducking for cover

chg: skill 6-100 uses the new AI (1-5 are the id bots)

chg: rewrote item choice management (esp wrt health and armour)

chg: weapon selection now biased towards killshots

chg: removed bot_boost

fixI: bots completely ignoring enemies 3ft away from them

fixI: bots unable to hit enemies at very narrow angles

[a13n]

But can you tell the difference between 6 and 7?
It seems more like a joke to have such a wider range from 6 to 999.

[Oeloe]

But can you tell the difference between 6 and 7?
It seems more like a joke to have such a wider range from 6 to 999.

I'm not sure what happens above 100, but the CPMA botskill 'officially' ranges 6-100 (1-5 = VQ3 AI). And the differences between (for instance) 86 and 87 are definitely noticeable. Besides, having a such a wide range is a blessing for newbies, because they can start by fighting a bot with skill 30 and gradually increase it as they get better.

[dzjepp]

I was having big problems trying to beat a 100.rat a while ago

[^misantropia^]

I'm not sure what happens above 100

Their accuracy doesn't get noticeably better (being almost godlike as it is) but they start making the craziest jumps - a bot at 999 can cross the center gap in q3dm17. Filthy little h4x0rs...

[JB]

wait, CPM bots actually go up to 999?