advice

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:54 pm

I've never posted on any of the q3w forums before, but I have been an avid reader from time to time, which is why I'm here now.
I know that most of you, while some are a little odd, are quite computer savvy and I need some advice. I was hoping that I could get one of you to chat with me over Aim or whatever it is that you use and help me into the wonderful journey of building (or maybe just plain old buying at this point) a computer. I just need help with what parts can go with what and what I need to run certain things. I'll check back for a reply to this message or someone could just e-mail me: vileliquid1026@yahoo.com. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks guys.

Post by **Scourge** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:06 pm

You could start by stating what kind of budget you have, what the pc will be used for, what you would like to get for starters for a kind of reference point.

Post by **Scourge** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:07 pm

Oh and we're not odd, we have character.

Post by **Underpants?** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:18 pm

vileliquid's calling us odd, scourge.
that really hurts my feelings.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Thu May 03, 2007 5:28 pm

My budget isn't too large at the moment and the pc will just be used for gaming and internet searching.
I do want to be able to run something like oblivion smoothly, but all i really want to play is DAOC and guild wars. I just got a computer for free off of someone, but it would have made a better end table then computer. I was searching around on new egg for different things but I guess I'm not all too sure what I am looking for. What kind of proceesor do I need to run something like oblivion? How much ram to make it run smoothly? What kind of motherboard?
I was looking for some one to be able to sit and chat with and maybe have them look on new egg and be able to send me links of things they would suggest so that way I can buy things piece by piece as I come into the money for them.

((not you in particular I guess.. i don't recognize your name. It has been awhile though, i guess.))

Post by **Foo** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:00 pm

nvidia card around 6600 or above
1Gb ram
Athlon XP 3000+ or better

No idea what the specs would be for an intel or ATI based comp.

A good, cheap combo at the moment would be a socket-939 motherboard, an athlon XP socket 939, 2x512Mb sticks of DDR ram to go in it, an older generation but mid to high-level graphics card (relative to its generation), and then wahtever else you want to bolt on to complete it.

Post by **Scourge** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:03 pm

Foo wrote:nvidia card around 6600 or above
1Gb ram
Athlon XP 3000+ or better

No idea what the specs would be for an intel or ATI based comp.

A good, cheap combo at the moment would be a socket-939 motherboard, an athlon XP socket 939, 2x512Mb sticks of DDR ram to go in it, an older generation but mid to high-level graphics card (relative to its generation), and then wahtever else you want to bolt on to complete it.

Agreed. My kids are playing Oblivion on almost that same setup. They have an Athlon XP 2200+, 1 Gb ram, and a 6600 gt. It plays pretty smoothly. So what Foo suggested or better should take care of what you need.

Post by **Scourge** » Thu May 03, 2007 7:07 pm

Underpants? wrote:vileliquid's calling us odd, scourge.
that really hurts my feelings.

We don't have to stand for this abuse!

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:40 pm

Is this case any good/compatable with the hardware you guys listed above?: E-bay item #: 130107980781

Post by **Foo** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:35 pm

Dunno, too lazy to copy paste then figure out how to turn it into an ebay query.

I think you need to go and research a few of the core compatability issues you're going to find with building a PC. Now fair enough, you don't know where to start, but here's a shortlist and all of these are a few google searches and wikipedia entries away from being entirely comprehendable by you. Research:
- Processor Socket formats e.g. AMD Socket 939
- Motherboard form factors e.g. ATX
- RAM types i.e. DDR, DDR2, SODIMM
- RAM speeds i.e. pc2700, pc4200, 333mhz 400mhz
- Hard drive types and technologies i.e. ATA, SATA, Raid, SCSI, 3.5" and 2.5"
- Power supply requirements
- Graphics card models and generations and when they were released (to tie them to games from the same period)

Bear in mind that you won't need a comprehensive understanding of these, merely the knowledge of what fits with what.

Truth is we could tell you all this for this one instance but it'll probably be less confusing and take the same time for you to check up on the things listed above, and you'll be in a position to order PC parts in any situation.

Anyone see things I missed above? Trying to keep it concise, that's important...

Post by **Survivor** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:37 pm

Also realise that if you're going to build in a tight budget some upgradability will go out of the window. The agp 8x, pci-express difference between old and new motherboards for gfx-cards is what i'm thinking of.
Atm i'm on a relative aging rig (about 4 years) which had its last upgrade a week ago. After this it just won't be worth investing in it anymore. If anything try to keep a little headroom so you can still upgrade a bit later on so you're not throwing money away which you could spare later on.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:51 pm

Thank you, I will look into all those things. I've been doing a little bit of research already and, not having much experience, I just end up confusing myself. That's why I had been looking for someone to message with back and forth.

The hardware that Scourge listed above I went and hunted down and they are all within a reasonable price bracket. I was just wondering if someone knew off the top of thier head if that power supply would work with them.

Post by **Scourge** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:10 pm

A good 400 or 500 watt power supply should do for that kind of system.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:35 pm

Okay, I'm searching around and I picked out the AMD athlon XP 2800+ so I have some kind of building block to build off of. I moved onto the motherboard next, checking out ASUS because it is a name I am familiar with and I have not heard anything bad before. I am using newegg's links to narrow down my search and I can't narrow my search down by socket 'a' which is the 2800's socket type. Am I missing something here? If so, please stop me.

If I kick my search back to before I pick ASUS, I can narrow my search down by 'socket a' to two motherboards:
JetWay J7F3E-PB Socket A (Socket 462) SiS 741CX Mini ITX AMD Motherboard
PC CHIPS M848A (V5.0) Socket A (Socket 462) SiS 746FX ATX AMD Motherboard
With a one hundred dollar price difference between the two.

(please insert interjection here)

Post by **Foo** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:46 pm

Socket A is a very old kind of processor connection, you may have trouble building a system around something like that.

I would suggest Socket 939 as a more modern AMD socketsfor which you can still find a lot of components. Or socket AM2 if you want the latest.

Socket A is considered a discontinued architecture (replaced by Socket 754, Socket 939 and later Socket AM2), although microprocessors and motherboards are still in circulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_A

BTW, focus on identifying a motherboard with the features you require, then build the rest of the system around this motherboard. Key features are processor socket and supported speeds. Ram socket and supported speeds. Chipset (e.g. nforce 3, 4, intel 945), graphics connection (AGP or PCI-e, go for PCI-e) and connectivity options (number of USB ports, SATA or IDE HDs, number of ram slots, PS2 sockets etc).

Everything else including the case can kinda fall into place around a well chosen motherboard. But don't buy anything until you've got everything priced and specced and you're sure they're all compatable.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:47 am

With all of this information in mind, i am looking at two things right now:
Amd Athlon 64 X2 4800 (Am2 - $130)
Amd Athlon 64 3800 (am2 $75)

It seems like both processors are compatible with this motherboard: The ASUS M2V-MX. This particular mother board has an FSB of 2000 MT/s. That would mean it was compatible with... ahh my head is going to explode.

Can anyone scope out these two steps for me and see if I am heading in the right direction? I would like to reward myself with several cookies. Also, would these two pieces of hardware be a good deciding factor in power supply wattage? No, I need to figure out ram and video card too, right?

I really like that case i say on e-bay with the 400watt power supply and the bid ends tomorrow. Obviously im not going to bid on it if it wont be any good to me.

Post by **Foo** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:52 am

400W is a bit low nowadays for a power supply shipping with a case. However if you like the case get it and purchase another psu to swap out.

On the other hand if the power supply is branded and you're only going to run a single hard drive, single graphics card and single cd drive you'll probably get away with 400w just fine.

main point is, not all '400W' power supplies are created equal. Unbranded 400W power supplies can sometimes only be fit for a 250W load, whereas a good brand will be good right up to the rated wattage.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:55 am

I would rather not mess around with the power supply (i'm not that confident) and I'd rather not have to shell out money for another one if the 400w one doesn't work out. (aww... but the case is black and shiny with pretty lig... er...)

Post by **Scourge** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:13 am

Foo wrote:400W is a bit low nowadays for a power supply shipping with a case. However if you like the case get it and purchase another psu to swap out.

On the other hand if the power supply is branded and you're only going to run a single hard drive, single graphics card and single cd drive you'll probably get away with 400w just fine.

main point is, not all '400W' power supplies are created equal. Unbranded 400W power supplies can sometimes only be fit for a 250W load, whereas a good brand will be good right up to the rated wattage.

I'm running 3 hard drives, 1 dvd-rw, 1 floppy, and a graphics card on a 400w with absolutely no problems. Ultra brand btw on an athlon 64 3400+. The setup I mentioned my kids have ran on a 300w for several years, also with multiple drives.

edit: Just saying you might be underestimating what it will handle a little.

Post by **AmIdYfReAk** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:59 am

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psuc ... orlite.jsp

enough said.

Post by **AmIdYfReAk** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:04 am

p.s.

Core 2 Duo 6600 @ 2.4Ghz,
2 gigs OCZ DDR2-800 ( 2 X 1gb sticks )
Maxtor 7200RPM SATA Hdd
LG SATA DVD-RW
4X 120mm Fans
WAter coling system
BFG 8800 GTS OC
Sb Audigy 2 ZS card,
~4 USB devices plugged in

mine max's out at 390Watts ( acoording to my Readings, ) that Calculator peggs mine at 378watts...

just fyi

Post by **Scourge** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 am

AmIdYfReAk wrote:http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

enough said.

Mine's rated at 342w

kids 285w
with 2hds, 1 dvd rom, 1cd-rw, 6600 gt, 1 external hd, 1 4 port usb hub

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:22 pm

The case and power supply in question (well, that I am questioning) has the following specs:

-drive space 5.25" drive x4
-3.5 FDD (external) x2
-3.5 FDD (internal) x2
-M/B Form Factor A/B/C/M (P4 ready)
-add on card space 7
-400w power supply. Type AT/ATX/PS3
- 4 80mm fan spaces. 2f/2b

Mid-sized tower. $50 with shipping.

Post by **Foo** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:26 pm

Scourge wrote:
AmIdYfReAk wrote:http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

enough said.
Mine's rated at 342w

kids 285w
with 2hds, 1 dvd rom, 1cd-rw, 6600 gt, 1 external hd, 1 4 port usb hub

Main beef I have with risking an underpowered PSU is diagnosing the faults you may experience as a result of a shifty power supply is a pain in the ass. Random crashes, reboots and error messages that could come every 5 mins, or once every 6 months, or only when running certain programs... can all potentially be down to a PSU issue.

I've had an underpowered PSU before now and as an inexperienced PC builder at the time, tracking down the issue was a right headache.

However I do see your point, I may be being over-cautious.

Post by **vileliquid1026** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:30 pm

I was talking to my buddy at work today and told him about this whole situation and he said: Just go grab oblivion off the shelf and check out the system specs.
For the recommended video card, the box suggests the nVidia Geforce 6800. When I search for it one new egg, I find the BFG GeForce 6800 256MB DDR Pci-e x16.
Is that what I would be looking for?