OBB1 Emulation @ OBB0

[a13n]

As I described here, there is an alternative $lightmap blending mode.
After wondering around later, I noticed a way to emulate obb1 @ obb0 environment(on unix) without breaking the copyright.
In this method we can still use the default q3 texture set though custom shader scripts are required.
Below is an example shot.

Brush and mapobject on the left have a custom shader script while on the right they are left default.


This is a new shader script for wall and floor.


A workaround for darker mapobjects or even player models


[conclusion]
We can manually shift the level of each texture, flexibly.

[P.S]
I'm currently planing to release a shader-only patch mod. :icon25:

[Shallow]

You seem to be missing a bit in this post: The bit where you explain how manually compensating for using an inappropriate lightmap blend by making every vertex-lit object arbitrarily brighter is a good idea.

Because it isn't.

Your problem is: Oh no, things are a bit darker if you turn off overbright bits!

The solution is: Play with overbright bits on, like everyone else.

[Silicone_Milk]

You should at least show a little encouragement towards a13n. He's just messing around with the engine seeing what he can do with it and how he can manipulate the shaders.

Although I'm not overly interested in the subject (no offense heh) I think it's a good thing that you're mucking through the shaders to figure out whats possible with them.

Keep on experimenting a13n. Only good can come from it.

[Foo]

He's been shown and had it explained previously why what he's doing is unnecessary and more appropriate ways to work around the 'issues' he's solving, but persists in inventing these nonsense solutions.

All very well until someone takes his faux-scientific postings as gospel and wastes time and effort on nonsense.

If I started to write garbage that would lead other mappers astray for my own amusement I'm sure you would object.

[ix-ir]

a13en why do you think this is necessary? There is no shortage of commands that will make Quake 3 look a bit funky if you set them.

[a13n]

Your problem is: Oh no, things are a bit darker if you turn off overbright bits!

Shaders for entities should also be updated in a similar manner to get everything look right. It's not impossible but a bit overwhelming.

@Silicon_Milk
Thank you for your understanding.

This method is mainly for visual consistency between fullscreen & windowed and more comfortable mapping experience.(switching back and forth between q3 & radiant or text editor without closing q3.)

@Foo, ix-ir
:icon27:

[pjw]

This method is mainly for visual consistency between fullscreen & windowed and more comfortable mapping experience.(switching back and forth between q3 & radiant or text editor without closing q3.)

I think the point people are trying to make is that you're expending significant time and effort to come up with a solution to a problem that isn't really bothersome to anyone but you.

It would be kind of like if I said, "You know, even though my bathroom is literally three feet from where I'm sitting, it's really annoying to me to have to get up from this chair when I have to go." and then coming up with plans for turning my toilet into a computer desk, including how to add wiring/outlets, bolt on keyboard and mouse supports to the porcelain, and convert the flushing water via hydroelectrics and use the resultant voltage to overclock my CPU.

Then I'd post blueprints and diagrams on this forum, and people would wonder why I bothered with all that, rather than just standing up and walking three feet to take a dump.

I personally don't mind if you post whatever you wish, as long as it doesn't break forum rules, but you have to realize that when you post something that's odd, and seemingly just mental masturbation, then you probably aren't going to see a lot of enthusiasm.

It's not impossible but a bit overwhelming.

Exactly. It's a bit overwhelming for you, and you're the only one who actually cares about the minor visual inconsistency. Think about that for a minute, and it explains the response you're getting.

[wattro]

stuff

i would be interested in seeing those plans. after all i *might* learn something. hmmm....

for a dwindling community made up mostly of old timers, you guys can be pretty harsh. i'm not saying you guys have to be nice, but trying to stifle creativity or experimentation? c'mon... if you don't like it, ignore it, or post constructively.

[a13n]

I think ... enthusiasm.

What a funny exaggeration!

[dichtfux]

for a dwindling community made up mostly of old timers, you guys can be pretty harsh.

We all feel very guilty now. No, really.

Look around for some other things he posted and you'll know why some people don't feel like simply ignoring it anymore. I don't really care (I said that I don't like the ideas and gave an explanation why I don't like them over at MC), but I can understand that some people are annoyed.

It's cool to play with the engine, but if nothing did come out of it, why then post it on a forum and pretend it was of any use? I pretty much agree with pjw on this.

[obsidian]

I agree with what Foo said. This is a technical forum and we can pretend it's all sunshine and roses until someone else comes along and not knowing any better stumbles upon the rantings of one person as fact and ends up wasting a bunch of time. You would certainly not expect to have someone post a recommendation on T&T to disable your antivirus, firewall and manually install spyware on your computer without getting the thread locked. As a technical forum, we have the responsibility to maintain the quality of information.

We have pointed out to a13n in the previous thread that what he is doing is definitely not a good idea and that he will run into more limitations while gaining nothing that couldn't be done through conventional means. We tell him about all the other problems he is creating for himself. We tell him that he's trying to fix a pocket watch with a jackhammer. But time and time again, we find ourselves trying to talk some sense into a brick wall.

This isn't about posting some technical stuff and hoping that someone else "*might* learn something" from... it's about posting purely false information disguised as if it were fact. If you actually understand what he is trying to do, you'll see the futility of what he is trying to accomplish and how it benefits no one including himself. This thread will become a stumbling block for anyone else who will come across it.

I'd like to challenge anyone who thinks he understands what a13n's trying to do with all this and still thinks it's a good idea.

[+JuggerNaut+]

He's been shown and had it explained previously why what he's doing is unnecessary and more appropriate ways to work around the 'issues' he's solving, but persists in inventing these nonsense solutions.

All very well until someone takes his faux-scientific postings as gospel and wastes time and effort on nonsense.

If I started to write garbage that would lead other mappers astray for my own amusement I'm sure you would object.

bingo.

[Shallow]

a13n pretty much devotes his time to developing 'new' ideas and methods that are demonstrably irrelevant or not as good as more established techniques and pushing them as legit. These need to be shot down in case some newbie takes them on board and suffers for it.

Some people may also be aware that he has an incredibly bad sockpuppet habit which he needs to grow out of if he wants to be taken seriously.

That's why even someone as relatively laid-back and non-confrontational as me is making posts in his threads that could just as easily be that picture of a huge rolleyes smiley vomiting out hundreds of baby rolleyes.

At least he is taking the trolling in his stride for the most part: So good on you for that a13n, but now will you please listen to sense?

[Amphetamine]

Didn't Ydnar implement gamma and compensate into q3map2 for the purpose of making the lighting look more consistant between obb and non-obb setups?

From what I can make out, a13n's solution gives a similar effect to multiply lighting, which works contrary to the way lighting actually works in nature, which in itself is a reason for not pursuing it further, not to mention the amount of things that it will break and that the shader based solution will make any custom map using part stock and part custom shaders look like arse.

So, agreement with the above posters. It may be an interesting avenue to explore as an excercise in how shaders and lightmapping work, but it's useless outside of a test environment.

[wattro]

it's entertaining to say the least... carry on :icon31:

[a13n]

By the way here is an example of patched entities.
All shots are caputured in windowed mode.
They look the same in fullscreen with OBB1, too.


large image(2MB)

edit:The order of detail stage of rl in this pic is wrong. So it looks odd.

[a13n]

Just another note:
You might want to designate "alphaGen lightingSpecular" for rounded or complex geometry instead of "alphaGen const N.N" to get a dynamic or metalic effect.
Default q3 shaders use this method only for textures with explicit alpha channel but the texture doesn't necessarily have to contain alpha channel .(By default it is set to 1.0.)

[rgoer]

if you are mapping for q3 then you should use -gamma and -compensate to make up for the lack of precision that comes with overbright bits, don't do this modulated lighting horseshit

[+JuggerNaut+]

^just another note

[a13n]

and it can also be overlayed on top of all the textures instead of replacing with alphaGen const.
I'm using this method for ctf player models to make them look distinct.

[a13n]

This is another comparison on mobb(r_mapoverbrightbits, default:2)




Conclusion:
It might help to lower mobb to prevent oversaturation.

[a13n]

O.K.
I decided to append parametric engine modification to this shader patch.
So this is no longer a text patch.
It is not a standalone but an alternative coexisiting executable.
Below is an overview of new features.

1. r_overbrightbits = 0 by default
2. r_mapoverbrightbits = 1 by default
3. added a syntax suger "blendFunc unreal" representing GL_DST_COLOR GL_SRC_COLOR
4. default lightmap blending is "blendFunc unreal" instead of "blendFunc filter"
5. re-eanbled "r_drawSun" for debugging confortability by level designers
6. re-enabled "r_flares" for an eye-candy
7. added bmp, pcx, png support
8. added "r_mode 12" as a modern notebook users' shortcut (1280x800)
9. removed bsp version check for loading maps for q3-engine based games (except different blood families such as fakk2, alice and mohha)
10. removed productid check to load elite force maps directly via "set fs_cdpath PATH_TO_EF" (BaseEF needs to be renamed to baseq3 though) and for demoq3 and demota users to load custom pk3.

The only yet enough one reason you should apply this patch is the fact that you can get the highest quality with noticeable fps gain(especailly on old PCs), plus even in windowed mode.

TODO:
adding a feature to switch back to default blending and overbrighting via command line for legacy maps

[zZCastleZz]

This thread is really strange..

This is all because you don't like over bright bits but still want the effect.. lol..

So you are applying shaders to all textures/surfaces in the entire level just so you can get the effect of overbright bits with out having to deal with overbright bits actually being turned on?

Well the one thing you mention is that you can get the effect of overbright bits when running in a window.. but umm.. Your not really truly ever playing the game when its in a window right?..

Why don't you just apply an ambient light value to your level and light grid on compile time rather than create a couple hundred shaders and overload the engine..

Seems like an awful lot of work to get the game to look .1% better when running in a window on a laptop. lol.. right? Am I mistaken??

[maz0r]

Oh another Don Quijote fighting against those weird a31nmills

[Foo]

Guys I just took A13n's work a step further and consolidated it into just one short procedure which you should be able to apply quite rapidly.

- Launch Q3
- Bring down the console
- Enter "\r_overbrightbits 1"
- Close the console
- Close Q3
- Launch Q3 again
- Load your map
- ??????????
- Profit!

Good job on laying the groundwork for this, A13n!