AMD vs Intel

[SOAPboy]

you suggested something that costs like $3000+
i hardly call that help. pirate OSX if its really that big of a fucking deal.
hes looking at a $1200 build compared to mac and their constant fucking over of customers with hardware prices.

i'm not saying osx is the wrong choice, i'm saying based on price the mac is a scam

Go back and read my original post. I never said he should get a Mac, I said he should go Intel. I merely suggested that he consider the RAM issue if he edits huge projects all at once. The Mac just happens to run the apps he wants, with the benefits of being able to run in a mixed 64/32-bit environment without the practical RAM limitations of 32-bit Windows.

If he were to get a 32-bit PC for 1200 bucks now (assuming Win64 won't work), then realize a year from now he needs more horsepower and gets something bigger for another 1200, he's almost bought the Mac. There's a reason my Macs last about 5 years and my PCs last about 2. 1200 every 2 or 3000 every 5 ends up costing the same. Plus you have the added advantage of high ebay resale value with the Mac. My $3000 Mac less the $1500 I'm selling the old one for on ebay evens the playing field considerably.

True enough.
Im seriously considering a mac soon.

I dont game enough anymore to dick with a windows box full time. And frankly, if theres something out i "have" to play, theres bootcamp, or i have a windows box sitting here..

[Dave]

Dave what did you mean when you said you can get a mac and it will last you 5 years vs 2 for a pc? If we both get a c2d, 4gb ram, a geforce 7800. Same hardware, so how does it last you longer?

Don't wanna start a fight here, just curious

I treat my Mac like a tool... I use it to edit photos. I also use it for other things like browsing the internet and watching movies, but generally it serves one purpose. All of the software I need runs well on it and in 64-bi so I can fill it with all the RAM I want--the only upgrade I ever need to worry about other than the occasional new hard drive. I don't game on my Mac.

On the other hand, I treat PCs like all purpose bleeding-edge machines.. internet, gaming, office, PS, etc. I string them together with random new parts with the intention of replacing (upgrading) those parts when something new and cool comes out--unlike the Mac where I only intend to upgrade the RAM. There's always something that requires new hardware... Vista, Doom 3, whatever if you want it to work correctly.

Now, since the Mac really only needs to do one job and photo technology doesn't evolve so fast that it requires you to get new shit just to run effectively, it tends to last much longer. Stability and predictability are way more useful than cutting edge technology.

Edit: Oh yeah, the final part of this... The only reason I bought a Mac Pro instead of upgrading my G5 was the ability to run Vista in Parallels, which I use all the time for my actual day job.

[Dave]

While we're at it, let's compare a comparable Dell Xeon workstation:

$3,937 -- > note this price does not include a x1900 because Dell doesn't offer one, only an $800 Quadro, which I did not add to the configuration.


Lease from $105/mo. (48 pmts)*

My System Details
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333
Genuine Windows Vista™ Business, with Media
128MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro NVS 285, Dual DVI or Dual VGA Capable
4GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC (8 DIMMS)
16X DVD+/-RW Roxio and Cyberlink PowerDVD™ for Vista Business
C1 All SATA drives, Non-RAID, 1 or 2 drive total configuration
500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM NCQ Hard Drive with 16MB DataBurst Cache™
No Monitor
My Accessories
No 1394aCard or Sound Blaster Audigy™ 2(D) Card selected
USB Entry Quietkey, No Hot Keys
Dell USB 2-Button Mechanical Mouse with Scroll
No Floppy Drive
No Speaker option
My Software
Norton Internet Security™ 2007 30 Day Trial
Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
My Support & Services
3 Year On-site Economy Plan
No Onsite System Setup
Purchase is not intended for resale.
Also Included
Windows Vista™ Premium
490MT 32bit
None

[dzjepp]

Are the Xeons and the Quadro that much better at image/video processing than a core2quadextreme/8800gtx? (Not that those are cheap, a core extreme runs for 900$ and the video card for 500-600$)

[Qr7]

blahblah ...mac fanboy trying to save his ass... more shit

2 processors != 2x as much power. i'd LOVE to see some benchmarks between a dual xeon and the quad c2d.

also, LOL at trying to make a 'quadro' compare to a x1900. get the fuck out of here dude.

edit: the whole point of this was, the mac pro ONLY comes with the xeons. it would be SO MUCH CHEAPER to go with a quad core processor if you really have a hard on for 2 processors with 2 cores each because you think it magically gives you 2x the power. It doesn't. way to buy the mac marketing bullshit, something PC users got over years ago.

[Dave]

I'm not trying to compare a quadro to an x1900. Dell doesn't offer a cheap card except the base card, which I left on... I wasn't going to try to equip the Dell with a $1000 card. The Quadro NVS 285 is the entry level card that doesn't cost very much. Had I added the next higher quadro, the price difference would have been even more.

You sure are reading way too much into what I post. The quad core (xeon or extreme, take your pick) vs. Dual duals argument is simple... The Xeon has more bus bandwidth, 1333 MHz compared to 1066. The quads have to share that bw between 4 cores. The duals have dual independent busses, so they only have to share that bandwidth between two cores, giving them twice the bandwidth per core. If your operations don't require a lot of bus speed, the quads will probably win (at least the Xeon quads), but if you need to get data into the cores efficiently, the dual duals stack up much better. Nevermind the fact you can't run dual quad extremes...

[Grudge]

Who the fuck needs two dual cores and registered ECC RAM to edit fucking photos? That's retarded, just paying double for everything. And lol, a quadro card.

ffs

[Nightshade]

Looks like Queer7 is rather upset.

[Doombrain]

lol people who can't afford macs

[werldhed]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

[plained]

mac useta have the nice color and no probs

buy an ipod and an iphone, maybe a lil set of those toy ispeakers!

[Dave]

Who the fuck needs two dual cores and registered ECC RAM to edit fucking photos? That's retarded, just paying double for everything. And lol, a quadro card.

ffs

For the last time,

It's the cheap quadro card that costs $150. The next available option is over $1000. To be realistic and fair to Dell, I left the cheap ass piece of shit card on the Dell. Drop the Apple fanboy shit because I am anything but... Especially considering I get paid to develop .Net code and am behind one of the the largest Vista deployments in the country at the moment.

It's got fuck-all to do with ECC. It has to do with the amount the OS can handle and 64-bit application/driver compatiblity. The Macs have it, Windows doesn't. It's a fucking fact.

[Dave]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

How much RAM do you have in your 7 year old PC and how much can you put in it?

[Grudge]

Who the fuck needs two dual cores and registered ECC RAM to edit fucking photos? That's retarded, just paying double for everything. And lol, a quadro card.

ffs

For the last time,

It's the cheap quadro card that costs $150. The next available option is over $1000. To be realistic and fair to Dell, I left the cheap ass piece of shit card on the Dell. Drop the Apple fanboy shit because I am anything but... Especially considering I get paid to develop .Net code and am behind one of the the largest Vista deployments in the country at the moment.

It's got fuck-all to do with ECC. It has to do with the amount the OS can handle and 64-bit application/driver compatiblity. The Macs have it, Windows doesn't. It's a fucking fact.

The point is that Apple is using server hardware in a workstation, which is total overkill and hugely overpriced for the kind of work FanaticX is going to do. Why pay $3000 when you can get the same (the same as in no noticeable difference in daily use) results from a $1000 rig?

And 64 bit Vista is no problem unless you have a lot of legacy hardware or specialist applications that need special drivers.

[Nightshade]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

Uhh, one machine does not an entire product line make.

[Doombrain]

Who the fuck needs two dual cores and registered ECC RAM to edit fucking photos? That's retarded, just paying double for everything. And lol, a quadro card.

ffs

For the last time,

It's the cheap quadro card that costs $150. The next available option is over $1000. To be realistic and fair to Dell, I left the cheap ass piece of shit card on the Dell. Drop the Apple fanboy shit because I am anything but... Especially considering I get paid to develop .Net code and am behind one of the the largest Vista deployments in the country at the moment.

It's got fuck-all to do with ECC. It has to do with the amount the OS can handle and 64-bit application/driver compatiblity. The Macs have it, Windows doesn't. It's a fucking fact.

The point is that Apple is using server hardware in a workstation, which is total overkill and hugely overpriced for the kind of work FanaticX is going to do. Why pay $3000 when you can get the same (the same as in no noticeable difference in daily use) results from a $1000 rig?

And 64 bit Vista is no problem unless you have a lot of legacy hardware or specialist applications that need special drivers.

i think you're missing the point. image rendering takes as much power as it can, hence the reason for the high spec in the macpro. there's a market need for it within the photo/fine art world.

[Dave]

To be fair, I have a server in the basement serving all of my music and movies that has been running for ten years. I can tell you that box would be fuck-all use for photo editing.

[werldhed]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

How much RAM do you have in your 7 year old PC and how much can you put in it?

I think it has 512 and it can take 1Gb. I think. I gave it to my father about a year ago. I understand your point of only needing the Mac to do one job, and not needing to upgrade it, but in my experience, my old PC did everything my new Mac can, sometimes better.
The whole "Macs are better at media" thing? Bollocks. Mine has a harder time with simple media than my old PC did. It can't even run Photoshop ffs. I just don't see any advantage to Macs unless you just prefer their looks. Just my opinion, though.

[Doombrain]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

How much RAM do you have in your 7 year old PC and how much can you put in it?

I think it has 512 and it can take 1Gb. I think. I gave it to my father about a year ago. I understand your point of only needing the Mac to do one job, and not needing to upgrade it, but in my experience, my old PC did everything my new Mac can, sometimes better.
The whole "Macs are better at media" thing? Bollocks. Mine has a harder time with simple media than my old PC did. It can't even run Photoshop ffs. I just don't see any advantage to Macs unless you just prefer their looks. Just my opinion, though.

lol, fucking hell.

[werldhed]

I can't stress enough NOT to buy a Mac. In contrast to Dave's 2 vs. 5 years my last PC lasted 7 years (still going) and my Mac lasted 4 FUCKING MONTHS.

Uhh, one machine does not an entire product line make.

I realize that, but I was pointing out that Dave's longevity rules have exceptions. To be honest, I could hardly care less if FanaticX got a Mac.

[werldhed]

How much RAM do you have in your 7 year old PC and how much can you put in it?

I think it has 512 and it can take 1Gb. I think. I gave it to my father about a year ago. I understand your point of only needing the Mac to do one job, and not needing to upgrade it, but in my experience, my old PC did everything my new Mac can, sometimes better.
The whole "Macs are better at media" thing? Bollocks. Mine has a harder time with simple media than my old PC did. It can't even run Photoshop ffs. I just don't see any advantage to Macs unless you just prefer their looks. Just my opinion, though.

lol, fucking hell.

My Mac blows. Prove me wrong.

[Doombrain]

every day when i re-render 2-6gig fine art files on top end macpros.

[Fanatic X]

I ordered the comp last night.

Intel Core 2 Duo 4mb 1.86GHz (will replace with 2.66 processor in a few months)
2GB Ram
256mb GeForce 8600 GTS
24" ultrasharp widescreen panel

Should be plenty fast for the time being.