Q4 MP Gothic Cathedral

[dnky]

'Amiens'
Quake 4 FFA 1v1
Demonstration piece
DOWNLOAD
The best looking Quake 4 level ever? Lol, maybe , or maybe not
This has been a long time coming. Inspired by qkennyq's Q3 map 'Chartres', this map is a huge Gothic Cathedral. Although entitled 'Amiens', the map is not intended as an actual representation of the real life building.
The level comprises of all custom materials, models, sounds, and textures.
Would be 'Pro-gaymers' may not understand this but the level was built without any game play considerations at all (that was kind of a joke for those that know me ). The entire project is about visual art, level design, modelling and 2d art skill. That said I have included game items and optimised the lighting somewhat so that the level is actually playable.
Considering when viewed from one end of the nave to the other the level hits around 400000 tris, I was pretty pleased that on my system at least I was getting around 30 or 40 FPS.
This time I have not included a bot file, although SABot for Q4 1.4.2 or the latest Q4Max bots will play fairly well if you want to add your own. In my opinion the SABot does much better than the Q4Max version.
Apart from the stained glass windows (which are qkq's), all other textures where created from scratch in photoshop or developed from my own photo sourced images.
Perhaps around 99% of the level was modelled from scratch externally in Blender3D. Q4edit was used largely as a compositor and compiler.
Many many thanks to those that have assisted in this project. I hope you enjoy it.

[dichtfux]

Nice textures and lighting, looks really good! :icon14:

The music also was a good choice, adds a lot to the atmosphere. FPS weren't that bad, qkq's Chartress was worse when it was published imo.

What about the teleporters to the world around the cathedral you were thinking about? Dropped that idea?

[dnky]

TY. Not really dropped....I still may do an 'outside', thing is, the point I began the project skill wise was some way below the point I finished, to build an outside area would really have meant rebuilding areas inside that I built first. The entire thing was one massive learning experience really, which I suppose was mostly the point of doing it. I do have a plan for a QW:ET or even Wolf D3 project that can use elements of what I've been doing lately both with this and other assets, so there is still time for a complete inside and outside map.

[GODLIKE]

I have to say this: There are several reasons why you can't use a generic texture on another generic texture ("Generic" as in, not a trim, no bumped edges)) and end them in the same plane. It looks bad. .. You should consider picking different textures for some of these archways . The brick texture used in the arch above the RA in that screenshot looks out of place, and the arches on either side of the RA arch would look better with a trim texture forming the arch.. (imnvho).

[dnky]

Thanks for input.
What you cant tell from screen shots alone is that the 'generic' texture used on the window arches is individually UVW mapped on to each arch. Although the arches them selves all finish at the same point, the textures from one to another do not repeat. I did consider using a texture with a beveled bottom to the normal map, but rejected it due to difficulties in mapping the texture to the geometry. One of the things I learnt in this process was how if given another start at a similar project, I wouldnt model each beveled arch, but use a flat plane and a normal map to achieve the same effect. This approach would have allowed a rounded trim to easily be applied to the bottom of the window.
The texture used on the large door way near the RA is down to personal choice I guess.

[ppp]

I'd agree with the textures 'clashing' too much but in my eyes there is a more serious problem with the floor. Specifically where the columns meet the ground. I think each column needs a 'lip' and platform at the bottom to make them look better, take a look at these:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... n%26sa%3DN

Also make the step on the floor deeper and have a different texture to each floor level

[dnky]

Thanks for taking the time to look.
Here are my thoughts about my project:
Firstly that link shows Classical architecture, not Gothic, Classical style tends to be seen more in secular architecture rather than religious.
I did worry about the base of the columns and I did worry about whether or not I should use a separate texture for the floor step, or even a different texture to the one I used. I did think about reflective marble and more of a central pattern to the floor.
The bottom line though is after much thought and evaluation I decided to go with where I was.
Look at the postives in this project too. Its a huge mesh built from scratch externally. It uses all custom made assets.
The original Q3 Chartres was a fantastic piece of design, but very 'unoptimised'. By modelling this outside the editor over draw has been kept to an absolute minimum.
I understand fully it has short comings, but so does every piece of work.
I really thought somebody may appreciate a guy trying to develop and stretch his skills. Obviously I was mistaken.

[wattro]

i don't think anyone said anything of the sort. it's obvious that you are going to get comparisons to chartres, and this will drive a lot of the feedback you get. you need to take it all with a grain of salt. there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate you developing and stretching your skills (and looks like it paid off), but on a piece like this you are going to get conflicting feedback (chartres vs how good it is if it wasn't similar to chartres).

i really like the mood and atmosphere delivered when looking down the hall (particular in the second shot). i think the reason people commented on the ceiling texture and floor is because everything that is not the ceiling texture or the floor looks outstanding and makes the grey ceiling texture look dull and out of place, by comparison. I tend to also agree with the columns, looking as if they just stand there (like they are not really cemented in). If that's by design, then cool.

[dnky]

Cant help the way I am
Jump off the deep end, heh, k, will chill.
Well, just like the original several remakes can always follow.

[ALMighty]

It looks pretty nice, although I don't really like the textures you've chosen. I think a more uniform set of textures would look a lot better. Something like this:

[dnky]

kk, Working on a small update. I really thought adding bases to the pillars would grind the level to a halt, but I was wrong.
Having made the alteration, I like it very much. I'm wasting tris, but that cant be helped as re-working from scratch is not really an option. What a remarkable engine this is, half a million triangles and the thing still runs at a playable speed.
I appreciate the texture observations you make above, but I like the grime look. I do intend to rework the floor area as well, and at the same time have been working on a replacement texture, and a step texture.

[wattro]

one of the thoughts i had on the pillar bases was instead of giving them bases, make the upper tier of floor start inside the pillar, the lower tier outside of the pillar, and having the pillars join the ground at the middle tier. then you could extend the upper tier of the floor around where the pillar meets the middle tier.

/much easier to explain with pictures but i hope that made sense.

[ALMighty]

Grim is fine, but I still think you still should use something else than brick textures. The modelling is well done, but the texturing doesn't do it justice at all. It's not that they look bad, they just doesn't seem to fit here. Except for the windows, they look great!

[dnky]

I SO wasn't going to do this, but made an update to this. Same download as above. I have added bases to the pillars and reworked the floor area. The blue/orange floor texture is replaced with a flag stone texture. This new texture is pretty hight res and has bumped up the file size a little. Sorry for that.
A new screenshot:

I know some folks dont think the texturing is quite right, but I am staying with what I've got. I may at some point try a different look, but for now, for me, this is final.
Wattro, I like that idea...at some point it may well come in useful
Almighty, I wish I could claim credit for the windows, I only converted them
Thanks to all.

[maz0r]

Looks better, but I would change the brownish trim texture which is all over the place to something more gray like the rest. IMO this would polish the look a lot.
And maybe consider to change the lighting a bit, especially the ceiling looks way too bright if you ask me.
The brushwork and the windows (!) looks very promising. IMO this thing has much potential.

[pjw]

This is looking nice! Not all that amazingly original, but great looking and wonderfully detailed.
The changes you've made are good too.

Note that I can also understand when you decide enough is enough and politely decline to make further changes.

[g0th-]

I really like the lights/windows/crystals above the arches. I think the roof looks very sexy as well.

[dnky]

TY. For now at least it is done. At some point in the future I may some back and re do the texturing, there are a couple of UVW issues on the ceiling I spoted too.
I really need to put it aside right now though. I have learned a huge amount about model design and texture creation doing this, it has been utterly worthwhile for me.

[Kat]

What happened to the images? They've all gawn! A bit late to the LEM party but you already know my thoughts on this one; time to move on me thinks