a neuroanatomist describes her own stroke

[[xeno]Julios]

the result is one of the most captivating talks I've experienced.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/229


(20 min)

[xer0s]

Wow. That is an amazing story. It would be great if there was a way to shut down either the left or right hemisphere for a brief moment so that you could have a state of unity or seperation (depending on the hemisphere). I suppose a drop of acid could do the trick, but that's a little different.

[[xeno]Julios]

I imagine that much of buddhist medidation (and contemplative traditions in general) have this as a goal - and it seems that such states of mind are inextricably bound to high states of compassion and empathy.

[Tsakali_]

very romantic story, yet I can't think it's much different than a religious person seeing the virgin mary

[Turing]

She... she actually understands how the process works. That's the thing. How is that no different from a religious experience?

[[xeno]Julios]

very romantic story, yet I can't think it's much different than a religious person seeing the virgin mary

It probably isn't that different. Certain types of experiences which are dubbed "religious" are very concordant with the sort of experience being described in that talk.

The difference is that some people are able to process that experience in a manner which doesn't involve the invocation of things like a bearded man in the clouds.

[Transient]

If the science behind the nirvana she speaks of can be uncovered, that would be a truly great thing.

[feedback]

oh god, she started crying

life force energy of the universe... fucking hippy

[Tsakali_]

very romantic story, yet I can't think it's much different than a religious person seeing the virgin mary

It probably isn't that different. Certain types of experiences which are dubbed "religious" are very concordant with the sort of experience being described in that talk.

The difference is that some people are able to process that experience in a manner which doesn't involve the invocation of things like a bearded man in the clouds.

her education and intellect could play great part in manifesting such elegant marriage between her scientific knowledge and spiritual likings.

but this doesn't have to take away from her experience, just saying

[seremtan]

first comment:

To experience the oneness and pureness of the right brain, you simply have to temporarily shut of the ramblings of the left brain. This can be done with meditation. Although, this oneness is often experienced as a result of being thrown into it by forces outside of the natural processes of your body acting on you. E.G. a stroke shutting down the left hemisphere thus forcing your right side to take over, or with drugs having a similar effect. When thrown into this experience unexpectedly, clearly it will have a far more profound and amazing effect on you. Wheres if you bring yourself to this state more naturally by meditation or other means, it will never have as great of an impact. From the cultural and ideological interpretation of what kind of experience is more appealing to each individual, the opinion can be formed as to which is "better". Obviously some would prefer the quick fix (and would have to deal with the repercussions of it), whereas others would prefer the more natural holistic route.

Along with all of these ideas, it has to be realized that we ARE whole beings that ARE potentially one with ourselves and the universe. With all mystic, religious, or spiritual labels aside, these are simple concepts that any decent amount objective thought will bring you to the acceptance of (if not true acceptance, then at least the probability of). It would be useless to contemplate restricting our brain usage to one hemisphere over the other, because logically neither would exist in at all the same way without the other already being there. Experience generally shows you that keeping a near balance between any two things is the most beneficial anyway. The brain as a whole is an amazing thing, and each hemisphere is so uniquely powerful that we can only benefit from any combination of their usage.

...

[mjrpes]

oh god, she started crying

life force energy of the universe... fucking hippy

you haven't reach nirvana yet eh?

[Dave]

speaking of L and R brain.. I just found this with google: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 61,00.html

Interesting... How do you see it?

[iambowelfish]

Awesome and inspiring.

However, I can't help but be a little sceptical of the left brain/right brain explanation, I thought that stuff was considered a bit simplistic/reductive these days?

[xer0s]

I imagine that much of buddhist medidation (and contemplative traditions in general) have this as a goal - and it seems that such states of mind are inextricably bound to high states of compassion and empathy.

Has there ever been any testing done to determine if these buddhist monks can actually shut down a hemisphere during meditation? It would be interesting if they received a CAT scan or an MRI brain scan during heavy meditation to see what is going on in there...

[phantasmagoria]

speaking of L and R brain.. I just found this with google: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 61,00.html

Interesting... How do you see it?

Clockwise, I can't see how you could possibly see it any other way o.O

[Transient]

I saw counter-clockwise initially, but I was able to see it clockwise after trying. Now I can't see it the other way anymore.

[AmIdYfReAk]

I saw counter-clockwise initially, but I was able to see it clockwise after trying. Now I can't see it the other way anymore.

you sound disippointed.

[[xeno]Julios]

Has there ever been any testing done to determine if these buddhist monks can actually shut down a hemisphere during meditation? It would be interesting if they received a CAT scan or an MRI brain scan during heavy meditation to see what is going on in there...

looks like it might not be as simple as right vs left hemisphere.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr= ... dYFMstpZuk

[Geebs]

I imagine that much of buddhist medidation (and contemplative traditions in general) have this as a goal - and it seems that such states of mind are inextricably bound to high states of compassion and empathy.

Has there ever been any testing done to determine if these buddhist monks can actually shut down a hemisphere during meditation? It would be interesting if they received a CAT scan or an MRI brain scan during heavy meditation to see what is going on in there...

a) it's hard to meditate with your head in an MRI scanner. Fucking noisy in there
b) if they successfully shut down one hemisphere, you could tell because they'd fall over
c) having bits of your brain shut down does not lead to a higher state of compassion and empathy. Google Phineas Gage. He was more likely to shit on your carpet than empathize
d) people with serious neurological damage can't be trusted with the evidence of their own senses. For example, people with parietal strokes and visual neglect tend to walk into doors a lot. Far more fascinating than this new age stuff is a series of paintings made by an artist with neglect as he recovered.

[[xeno]Julios]

u can't really compare phineas gage's lesion to the sorts of issues being discussed here.

[xer0s]

That's true. Gage had his frontal lobe blown out of the top of his head. Not exactly the same.

[Geebs]

d) people with serious neurological damage can't be trusted with the evidence of their own senses.

is the point I was making. The flailings of the (compressed) bits of the rest of the brain != nirvana. She was probably also high on a bunch of endogenous opioids

You could, taking a reductionist viewpoint, use this as an equally powerful argument that religious experiences are a sign of being fucked in the head.

[werldhed]

Ah... Phineas Gage... The poster child of neurology.

I still remember watching a reenactment of his story in college. Funny stuff.

[[xeno]Julios]

d) people with serious neurological damage can't be trusted with the evidence of their own senses.

is the point I was making. The flailings of the (compressed) bits of the rest of the brain != nirvana. She was probably also high on a bunch of endogenous opioids

You could, taking a reductionist viewpoint, use this as an equally powerful argument that religious experiences are a sign of being fucked in the head.

I think it's fair to say that the experience she described, which was the result of a sudden lesion, was qualitatively similar to many other experiences which are allegedly attainable via more "natural" methods, and that there is a lesson to be learned. This isn't proof that the right side of the brain is responsible for those experiences, but it is tantalizing evidence. She wasn't high on drugs - did u watch the talk?

And yea, being fucked in the head is apparently associated with those experiences - which explains a lot about ppl like abraham, moses, mohammed, etc.

[Geebs]

endogenous opioids