Auto Bailout Failed, going to be a bumpy day on Wall Street

[Peenyuh]

you are incorrect. Government policy indirectly influences, not dictates.

You, sir, are the one who is incorrect. Just today, I went down and had my car smogged. It passed emissions in a better than average way. They denied me my certificate - which is required by government - because an indicator light said my vehicle needed a tune up. All of the sensors built into cars, these days, are dictated by the government. Like big brother saying to brush yer teeth in a rapid vertical motion. You have to purchase a car that fits a government standard. i.e. the auto companies have to obey the government or they cannot sell cars. That's dictation.

[shaft]

you're

That's an incomplete sentence.

Yeah, it's just a single word. Am I supposed to be impressed that you know this?

[Peenyuh]

Actually, it is not a single word. It is, in fact, a composite of two separate and distinct words.

[shaft]

It's called a contraction, and it is a single word. Welcome to elementary school.

[Captain]

Must have found his diploma in a can of beans

[Peenyuh]

Yer both wrong. A contraction is two words. And, I found my diploma in yer sisters back pocket. Ooooohhhh!!!!

[Fender]

It's called a contraction, and it is a single word. Welcome to elementary school.

2nd grade, specifically
http://www.kidport.com/grade2/LanguageA ... ctions.htm

edit: and I suppose I'll chime in w/ my solution:

UAW: Get rid of job banks and other similar programs. Remove most restrictions on firing people. Slightly reduce pension benefits. Restructure wages by lowering base and increasing incentive based compensation to increase quality, reduce costs, increase efficiency, etc.

Chrysler: Fuck 'em. Their parent company is wealthy enough.

Ford: They will probably be ok, but if not, follow GM's example below.

GM: Force restructuring though bankruptcy. Do NOT reward horrible business practices w/ free money. Introduce a special unemployment benefit for employees of GM and tier 1 supplier that lose their jobs due to bankruptcy. Something like 6 months of wages and health benefits from the gov't before regular unemployment insurance kicks in. Include incentives for people to get a new job ASAP. Something like extended benefits if they get a full-time job before the 6 month period ends. From the top, require a fairly large % of executives (VP and up or something) lose their positions w/ no golden parachute. And similar to the UAW workers, change salaries to have a low base and large incentives.

[shaft]

Yer both wrong. A contraction is two words. And, I found my diploma in yer sisters back pocket. Ooooohhhh!!!!

can't, o'clock...

Even using your own logic you fail. You should go back to speaking Spanish, ese.

[shadd_]

Yeah, it's just a single word. Am I supposed to be impressed that you know this?

no, but its fucking funny you seem to put something into it.

[R00k]

It's called a contraction, and it is a single word. Welcome to elementary school.

2nd grade, specifically
http://www.kidport.com/grade2/LanguageA ... ctions.htm

edit: and I suppose I'll chime in w/ my solution:

UAW: Get rid of job banks and other similar programs. Remove most restrictions on firing people. Slightly reduce pension benefits. Restructure wages by lowering base and increasing incentive based compensation to increase quality, reduce costs, increase efficiency, etc.

Chrysler: Fuck 'em. Their parent company is wealthy enough.

Ford: They will probably be ok, but if not, follow GM's example below.

GM: Force restructuring though bankruptcy. Do NOT reward horrible business practices w/ free money. Introduce a special unemployment benefit for employees of GM and tier 1 supplier that lose their jobs due to bankruptcy. Something like 6 months of wages and health benefits from the gov't before regular unemployment insurance kicks in. Include incentives for people to get a new job ASAP. Something like extended benefits if they get a full-time job before the 6 month period ends. From the top, require a fairly large % of executives (VP and up or something) lose their positions w/ no golden parachute. And similar to the UAW workers, change salaries to have a low base and large incentives.

A lot of that sounds reasonable.

I've heard the bankruptcy notion before. The idea is that having to declare bankruptcy would force them to lean out their business and finally make some decisions that would change the way they operate -- and if they do these things, then they survive to sell cars another day.

I'm ignorant on this, so I'm just asking... Is that a feasible idea? If they declare Chapter 11, will it not pretty much kill their business altogether? Have there been other companies that declared, and then wound up coming back strong in the market after restructuring?

Or is this another way to essentially say "they deserve to fail, so let them?"

[4days]

Jesus christ people give so much undeserved respect to suits it's not even funny...and the suits are the problem.

off-topic rant, but i'm watching something like that happen with a client of ours and it's horrible. they're a new company with tons of potential, but they've started listening to the government-sponsored advisors that hound new british businesses. was speaking out of turn by doing it, but i think i managed to convince one of them to clear the decks with their current guy (who they're deeply unhappy with), find an advisor themselves if they really need one and ask for references and case studies before parting with any more cash.

don't know what it's like across the pond, but advisors in suits are a plague to new businesses over here. the moment you register with companies house you start getting mail/calls from a parasitic old-boy network promising contacts, investment, government grants and membership of "schemes". they can bleed a business (and the government grants systems) for thousands of pounds before anyone realises how utterly useless they are, and once they've got you groomed then they'll pass you on to their friends.

can't help feeling that these people are just spanners in the works of industry. i don't know, that's probably ill-informed prejudice on my part. business consultancy is like any other trade, 80% of the people in it are bound to be rubbish/mediocre - but a bad consultant can do a fucksight more damage than a bad plumber.

[StormShadow]

I mean.....some of you really need to listen to yourselves.....you're shitting on people for getting "paid" when their work habits are no different from any industry: you'll always find those who work hard and those who don't...on every job site in the universe whether it's a factory, office or shit pit. Shut the fuck up about that already.

I'm not hating on workers for making decent wages, I'm hating on the UAW for refusing to make a single concession to save their own industry.

[Tormentius]

I'm not hating on workers for making decent wages, I'm hating on the UAW for refusing to make a single concession to save their own industry.

The concessions should start at the top, not the bottom. There are a ton of places costs can be cut before the average worker's wages and the UAW knows it.

[Peenyuh]

Yer both wrong. A contraction is two words. And, I found my diploma in yer sisters back pocket. Ooooohhhh!!!!

can't, o'clock...

Even using your own logic you fail. You should go back to speaking Spanish, ese.

can not (2), of the clock (3)

@Fender: KMA

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

jesus, you are the epitome of stupid peenyuh

[Peenyuh]

no u

[shaft]

Yeah, it's just a single word. Am I supposed to be impressed that you know this?

no, but its fucking funny you seem to put something into it.

Not as funny as hate mentioning college and you flaming him with a 2nd grade grammar fuckup.

[shaft]

can't, o'clock...

Even using your own logic you fail. You should go back to speaking Spanish, ese.

can not (2), of the clock (3)

@Fender: KMA

cannot (1)


keep digging...

[Big Kahuna Burger]

peenyuh

[Captain]

END OF TEST

[Peenyuh]

I love you guys.

On that note, this thread seemed to have degenerated fairly quickly.

[shadd_]

Not as funny as hate mentioning college and you flaming him with a 2nd grade grammar fuckup.

shaft must proof read all his posts religously.

[Massive Quasars]

Jesus christ people give so much undeserved respect to suits it's not even funny...and the suits are the problem.

off-topic rant, but i'm watching something like that happen with a client of ours and it's horrible. they're a new company with tons of potential, but they've started listening to the government-sponsored advisors that hound new british businesses. was speaking out of turn by doing it, but i think i managed to convince one of them to clear the decks with their current guy (who they're deeply unhappy with), find an advisor themselves if they really need one and ask for references and case studies before parting with any more cash.

don't know what it's like across the pond, but advisors in suits are a plague to new businesses over here. the moment you register with companies house you start getting mail/calls from a parasitic old-boy network promising contacts, investment, government grants and membership of "schemes". they can bleed a business (and the government grants systems) for thousands of pounds before anyone realises how utterly useless they are, and once they've got you groomed then they'll pass you on to their friends.

can't help feeling that these people are just spanners in the works of industry. i don't know, that's probably ill-informed prejudice on my part. business consultancy is like any other trade, 80% of the people in it are bound to be rubbish/mediocre - but a bad consultant can do a fucksight more damage than a bad plumber.

Government sponsored advisers active in seeking out new businesses. What was the impetus for such a system?

[Fjoggs]

can not (2), of the clock (3)

@Fender: KMA

[4days]

Government sponsored advisers active in seeking out new businesses. What was the impetus for such a system?

would guess that to begin with it was the DTI (previously Board of Trade, now BERR) attempting to influence the growth and direction of new businesses - and that something similar happens with boards of trade and chambers of commerce everywhere else.