Players with best movement?

[iris030380]

Who do you think has the best movement out of popular/professional Quake III players? And do you prefer to watch low sens or high sens players?

Ten players I think have supernatural movement : St. Germain, Farside, Lexer, Unkind, Doomer, Matrox, Toxic, Ooze, Z4muZ and Fatal1ty.

[d1sturb]

w3sp?

[nay0k]

w3sp is extremely good at movement, however he doesn't play anything but DeFRAG

I hate saying this, but walter really has good movement. He's the only guy I've seen that can do the bridge to rail on DM6 in one jump in VQ3. Too bad he's completely psychotic and will probably never attend a LAN tournament.

czm, fox, Cypher, av3k and rapha all have great movement also.

[DRuM]

Cooller

[iris030380]

I forgot about av3k! I think most pro's have great movement, with maybe a few exceptions, QUAD.Wrath for example, and Mist + Vorv from iron fist. They always look pissed. Maybe they are pissed... The reason I didn't include Cooller and CZM is, although they do the job, they are clinical. There is no style there. Im not saying they have worse movement than Germain or Fatal1ty etc, but they don't look as good. I like watching players who make being good at Q3 look easy. And the reason I put unkind there is he was the daddy of twitch movement.

As regards the bridge/rail in one jump in Vq3, I didn't think that was possible. I remember a straffejumping training map I played once with progressively harder single jumps, from blue to gold (gold being the longest possible in the engine), and I got to the third to last one (white or purple I think) and I can't do the bridge to rail in one without using that pmove command.

I wanna see that in a demo.

[DRuM]

Also, strenx has good movement. But yeah, they're all good. Fatality's movement always looks slightly clumsy to me, at least, by comparison to those others.

[[xeno]Julios]

i'm guessing he used 333 fps for that jump, but still impressive if it's true.

[nay0k]

Well I'm not sure of the settings he used, but the video's on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge3dZaxB ... re=related

EDIT: You can see a bit of the console at the end, reveals he has pmove_fixed 1 on but com_maxfps 125

[foralarx2k3]

@nayok...That's a defrag video .. you can tell by the mouse tracking bar across the middle of the screen.

Just did this ... VQ3, pmove_fixed 0, com_maxfps 83, cg_fov 110, res: 1024x768

youtube linkage

btw the console is pulled down in video playback mode ... not as the demo is recorded (you can see this by the slight movement in the game underneath) ... I didn't change any of the settings but you'll have to take my word for it ..

Other than that my only other comment would be to say find the right com_maxfps in VQ3 for your rig and you'll be really surprised just what is acheivable (even with pmove_fixed at 0)

As for my fav players in terms of movement.

Lakerman, Pele, Python, Blue, Zero4, Doomer. Fatality sneaks in if only for the infamous double rocket jump back out of the lava on DM13 and back up to the RL, awesome timing.

FoRa!

[iris030380]

Like him or hate him, Fatal1ty was light years ahead in the beginning. That move youre talking about foralarx, wasn't that the year he played against Z4 in the final on Tourney2? The year he beat Bl0key on T2 as well... a long time ago maybe 2000? He was the player who got me into Q3 back then. Way smoother than anyone else but he had style as well, very efficient movement. Blue, Pyth, Doomer etc. were all great movers but I'd say Fatal1ty was better to watch. Maybe because he always used to win had something to do with it...

In some ways, a more recent Toxic (say, around 2004 - Eurocup 9) reminds me of Fatal1ty in movement at least. Though obviously Toxic is by then a lot more dangerous and more impressive to watch.

[foralarx2k3]

It would have been around that time yes, I seem to remember someone rj'ing off of the wall and back out of the fog on T2, having been knocked off of the bridge, as well, though I can't recollect who it was .. (it's the brain cells .. they're getting a bit grey after all this time).

I can't remember if it was Blue or Zero4 that came first. We're going back to Q2 now. I just remember seeing a couple of 1v1's on The Edge and some amazing rails being pulled off along with silk smooth movement. Later, when PCs caught up with Id's new Q3 engine and it all really started to take off, a new crop of pros came to the fore. Among them was Lakerman of SC.

He never really made it big but watching his games always left me with a feeling of empathy towards him. Later came Python with his amazing aim and then came Pele. In terms of pure movement, Pele was for me THE player. Fatality was good, don't get me wrong and is obviously the most successful player, since Thresh, but Pele was the player whose movement style I looked to after Lakerman's.

And as you mentioned Blokey .. well I once had the first hand honour of playing him on T4. I did manage a couple of frags but he turned on the style and gave me a proper whupping. Still like I said he was a true gent and I was just honoured to get a game with him. I not sure his movement was better than mine but his aim, well the score would have spoken volumes.

Cooller (sp?) and Toxic came along after I stopped following the pros so it would be hard to comment on them ... might have to go and dig some of there games up now

FoRa!

[[xeno]Julios]

@nayok...That's a defrag video .. you can tell by the mouse tracking bar across the middle of the screen.

Just did this ... VQ3, pmove_fixed 0, com_maxfps 83, cg_fov 110, res: 1024x768

youtube linkage

that's a pretty standard jump

btw why 83 fps?

[d1sturb]

I'm a bit of a defragger myself, i could possibly make that jump with a few attempts.

I'll have a go and record it if i'm successful.

[nay0k]

Yeah I was able to do it in a single jump but I failed at it more times than I succeeded. I make the jump almost all the time when doing it the "normal" way, it's a pretty easy jump though.

[foralarx2k3]

that's a pretty standard jump

btw why 83 fps?

Yup it is, I was just trying to get across the point that you didn't need pmove_fixed 1 to make the jump.

As for the 83, I have a fairly old system and I struggle to maintain 125fps. 83 seems to be the next number down for me that allows me to consitantly make all the jumps (DM13 mega, CPM4 jumps etc). I can't remember what the actually number that I supposed to use from that big post that someone did with the chart in (76?) but it doesn't work for me, my rig always seems to be a few points off the suggested numbers. For example 127 works better for me than 125 when I can maintain it. Hence why I said find the right FPS setting.

[[xeno]Julios]

Yup it is, I was just trying to get across the point that you didn't need pmove_fixed 1 to make the jump.

but the other jump was bridge to rail in one jump. You did it in two.

As for the 83, I have a fairly old system and I struggle to maintain 125fps. 83 seems to be the next number down for me that allows me to consitantly make all the jumps (DM13 mega, CPM4 jumps etc). I can't remember what the actually number that I supposed to use from that big post that someone did with the chart in (76?) but it doesn't work for me, my rig always seems to be a few points off the suggested numbers. For example 127 works better for me than 125 when I can maintain it. Hence why I said find the right FPS setting.

ah ic.

btw the engine can only render at 1000/n fps, where n is an integer. So 1000/7 = 142 fps, 1000/8 = 125 fps, and 1000/9 = 111 fps. So if you use com_maxfps 127, it'll attempt to render at 142 fps, which btw, on a listen server, is equivalent to 125 fps online in terms of movement physics (which is why you got better results).

I'm assuming you're running picmip 5, vertex lighting, and 640 resolution (r_mode 3) right?

[foralarx2k3]

but the other jump was bridge to rail in one jump. You did it in two.

Point taken and I hadn't realised that until I went back and looked again. I don't believe I've ever tried to just do the circle jump on it's own and see if I can make it. Might have to give it a go now, but I may not get a chance to have a serious practice session though before I jet off to Florida for my christmas hols though :P

btw the engine can only render at 1000/n fps, where n is an integer. So 1000/7 = 142 fps, 1000/8 = 125 fps, and 1000/9 = 111 fps. So if you use com_maxfps 127, it'll attempt to render at 142 fps, which btw, on a listen server, is equivalent to 125 fps online in terms of movement physics (which is why you got better results).

so you're saying:-

com_maxfps = 77 to 83 - Engine Render = 1000/12 = 83.333
com_maxfps = 84 to 90 - Engine Render = 1000/11 = 90.909
com_maxfps = 91 to 100 - Engine Render = 1000/10 = 100
com_maxfps = 101 to 111 - Engine Render = 1000/9 = 111.111
com_maxfps = 112 to 125 - Engine Render = 1000/8 = 125
com_maxfps = 126 to 142 - Engine Render = 1000/7 = 142.857

Because for the most part I'm capped at 83, the engine is rendoring at 1000/12 = 83.3333fps.

In theory com_maxfps 127 is all wrong because it's out of sync with the engine render cycle. But the thing is it works on my rig. I suspect what is really happening here is that
a) the engine may be attempting to render at 142 but is either only achieveing 125 or less because the CPU and GPUs on my rig simply can't achieve 142 and
b) the com_maxfps setting is also not being achieved resulting in a match at 125 or more than likely 100 or 90.909.

I'm assuming you're running picmip 5, vertex lighting, and 640 resolution (r_mode 3) right?

Nope, picmip 1, r_vextex 0, r_mode 5 or 6 I think (1024x768). I have all the bells and whistles on. At 40, I'm past the age of worrying about if I'm competitive or not anymore

Thanks for the techy stuff Julios, very insightful.

FoRa!

[[xeno]Julios]

so you're saying:-

com_maxfps = 77 to 83 - Engine Render = 1000/12 = 83.333
com_maxfps = 84 to 90 - Engine Render = 1000/11 = 90.909
com_maxfps = 91 to 100 - Engine Render = 1000/10 = 100
com_maxfps = 101 to 111 - Engine Render = 1000/9 = 111.111
com_maxfps = 112 to 125 - Engine Render = 1000/8 = 125
com_maxfps = 126 to 142 - Engine Render = 1000/7 = 142.857

yep, exactly.

In theory com_maxfps 127 is all wrong because it's out of sync with the engine render cycle. But the thing is it works on my rig. I suspect what is really happening here is that
a) the engine may be attempting to render at 142 but is either only achieveing 125 or less because the CPU and GPUs on my rig simply can't achieve 142 and
b) the com_maxfps setting is also not being achieved resulting in a match at 125 or more than likely 100 or 90.909.

u can always check with cg_drawfps 1 and see what the engine is rendering at realtime. Also remember the listen/dedicated server physics difference. 142 on a listen server is the same as 125 on a dedicated (i think it might be something like: physics(listen@1000/n-1) = physics(dedicated@1000/n). Not positive if this generalizes across n though - but i'm sure that 1000/7 on a listen provides the same physics as 1000/8 on a dedicated.

Nope, picmip 1, r_vextex 0, r_mode 5 or 6 I think (1024x768). I have all the bells and whistles on. At 40, I'm past the age of worrying about if I'm competitive or not anymore

always nice to get stable 125 fps though

(although if you're able to use p_move with all the mods you play it's not that big of an issue)

[iris030380]

Nayok...

I think Bl0key was pretty much universally aknowledged to be the best UK player in the golden era. He is a good guy as well, like you said. Lots of european clans were interested in him after UNR started to kiss ass in the eurocups. There were other great UK players, especially team players, but Bl0key could to some extent mix it up with the top international duellers. He is agressive as well, which is always better to watch than a +back player (like me!). I played him a few times but I don't think I ever put him down.

His movement (Bl0key) was I suppose average as a pro, but he just did the job. No real weaknesses, no great advantages. He excelled at CPM4 around that time, and there are some very entertaining demos of him taking the Quad pretty much single handed from all angles.

As for Pele, he can kick a ball pretty well but I don't remember seeing him play

[foralarx2k3]

Well he's certainly got as good a shot as he namesake that's for sure

[d1sturb]

I think to have a good style, it helps so much to play cpm/vq3 (preferably both) defrag fast caps. the faster you are, the cooler you look when your not trying to be necessarily fast.

I noticed a massive increase of style in my gameplay after i had a few weeks of fast caps. you can just do things you wouldn't think to do normally.

I don't know how many 'pros' have played defrag competitively.