Hypothetical home theater setup - the works

[R00k]

Okay, I've still got about 2 months until all my debt is paid off (again), so I'm not buying anything for at least that long. Also, I'm probably going to have to spring for a car fairly soon as well, which also impacts the old wallet.

That said, I've been looking around a little and trying to think about what kind of home theater setup I'd like to have in my living room. I know that a new flat screen is going to be the first thing I buy -- probably by the end of this month -- but purchasing all the other components will probably be spread out over a year. Also, our DVD player is complete crap, so we'll probably be replacing that, if not before the television, then at the same time.

The thing is, I know next to nothing about home theater gear these days. I've been so tight with my money the last few years that I haven't felt like keeping up with anything. Would I still be better off buying a PS3 than a regular BluRay player, or should I get a BluRay player, and eventually get an XBox so I can stream NetFlix movies to it? How much do I need to spend to get a clean and powerful surround system that will support all my devices? And on and on...

So, the question: if you were going to build a home theater, what would you use, given these criteria?

• I want a 46-inch LCD. I love the Samsungs, so that's probably what I will get unless I can find a great deal on a Bravia.
• My living room is not huge, but a decent size. I haven't measured it recently (I will tonight and update), but I would say it's around 15' x 12'. The tv would be on one end, the love seat about 10 feet away from it, with another 5 feet between the love seat and the back wall. I want surround sound.
• When all is said and done, I'd like a nice television, a BluRay player, a stereo, an HD gaming console, and a media center PC.
• This is what I'm kinda thinking in terms of money - please tell me if I'm way off here: around $1200-$1500 on the television; around $400-$500 on a receiver; around $300 on speakers (I will mount them myself); Media Center for free (I've read other threads about doing this with Linux, and that sounds great to me - I think I already have the hardware). The BR player & console are up in the air, since I don't know if I'll be getting a PS3 combo or not.

As I said, I know next to nothing about current generation a/v systems, but I want to learn as much as possible, especially for my bang-to-buck ratio.

So, would any of you friendly 'philes care to take a noob under their wing and school me on the finer points of setting up a home theater?

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

So, what would you do with my money?

[Foo]

5.1/4" Bluray drives are coming down in price quite nicely now. If you're heading for a media centre PC setup then springing for one of those drives is an option. That'd be nice paired with an xbox.

[R00k]

You know, I hadn't even thought of that. I may not need to buy a separate component for a player at all.

[+JuggerNaut+]

at 10ft i 'd get a 50", but that's me. i'd buy whichever console you plan to gaming on instead of leaning toward netflix streaming. its' not that good quality wise and movies are limited.

i'd be all over the ps3 for the BR, good games, and better media capabilities than the 360. i have both, so not a fanboy of either.

$300 for speakers is pretty low. i'd cut $100 off your budget here and there and bump that up a few hundred bucks. you'll find bigger jumps in sound quality with better speakers than buying a better receiver.

[R00k]

If you think I should base my console decision strictly on gaming, I might post a thread in GD about it and check to see which one has the exclusive games that I'd be interested in. I'm leaning toward the PS3 though, and it sounds like you're reinforcing/agreeing with that. Plus, not having to buy a separate BluRay player is a big bonus.

Thanks for the tips. How much more do you think I should spend on speakers, for a full surround set? Any brands/models in particular you'd recommend?

I also know next to nothing about receivers, but I've been watching werldhed's thread to get some ideas. I've looked around at some online. It seems strange that they're all still so big. Not that it matters in any way, but they look like they're the exact same size as they were in the late 80's, while everything else has gotten smaller. Again, not that it matters.

I don't really understand the fundamental difference between regular stereo receivers and home theater receivers, but I guess since I'd like to have radio through I would need to get a stereo receiver? I'll probably look for one with satellite radio as well.

[Foo]

just checked out the price of internal bluray drives and they're almost half what I expected... and most of them seem to be hd-dvd/bluray combo drives.

I think I'll pick one up sometime very soon.

I don't need write functionality yet...

[Fender]

Yeah, $300 on speakers is pretty low. I've just got bookshelf Cerwin-Vegas and a 10" 400 watt Infinity sub and I've got over $900 in my speakers. Don't skimp on sound, it is a major part of the movie and gaming experience.

[+JuggerNaut+]

If you think I should base my console decision strictly on gaming, I might post a thread in GD about it and check to see which one has the exclusive games that I'd be interested in. I'm leaning toward the PS3 though, and it sounds like you're reinforcing/agreeing with that. Plus, not having to buy a separate BluRay player is a big bonus.

Thanks for the tips. How much more do you think I should spend on speakers, for a full surround set? Any brands/models in particular you'd recommend?

I also know next to nothing about receivers, but I've been watching werldhed's thread to get some ideas. I've looked around at some online. It seems strange that they're all still so big. Not that it matters in any way, but they look like they're the exact same size as they were in the late 80's, while everything else has gotten smaller. Again, not that it matters.

I don't really understand the fundamental difference between regular stereo receivers and home theater receivers, but I guess since I'd like to have radio through I would need to get a stereo receiver? I'll probably look for one with satellite radio as well.

the speaker question you'll have to figure out if you want something for now or get pieces and build on that which would be a better option sound quality wise. you'll need to figure out your budget for the speaks, but that's where i'd put the majority of my money other than the display. speaker listening is extremely subjective so you'll need to take a listen to a few sets or pairs, whichever way you decide to go.

i hear ya on receivers, but with the wattages creeping up and getting more bang for the buck, the chassis needs room to breath because those components get smokin' hot.

[R00k]

just checked out the price of internal bluray drives and they're almost half what I expected... and most of them seem to be hd-dvd/bluray combo drives.

I think I'll pick one up sometime very soon.

I don't need write functionality yet...

So what output does a PC use for this -- the VGA connector doesn't output the same quality as HDMI, does it?

If so, it almost seems like a no-brainer to go this route, as long as the remote provides the same functionality as it does with a normal DVD player.

[R00k]

Yeah, $300 on speakers is pretty low. I've just got bookshelf Cerwin-Vegas and a 10" 400 watt Infinity sub and I've got over $900 in my speakers. Don't skimp on sound, it is a major part of the movie and gaming experience.

the speaker question you'll have to figure out if you want something for now or get pieces and build on that which would be a better option sound quality wise. you'll need to figure out your budget for the speaks, but that's where i'd put the majority of my money other than the display. speaker listening is extremely subjective so you'll need to take a listen to a few sets or pairs, whichever way you decide to go.

i hear ya on receivers, but with the wattages creeping up and getting more bang for the buck, the chassis needs room to breath because those components get smokin' hot.

That makes sense. I definitely don't just want something "for now." I'd rather take longer to get everything, and get quality components than skimp on them for immediate satisfaction.
I just measured my living room -- I was pretty sure I had underestimated how big it was, but I didn't want to say it was 20 feet without measuring it. It is 20 feet long, with the couch 13 feet away from the television, and 4 feet from the back of the couch to the back wall.

I was sitting on the couch the other day, eyeballing the size of a screen on the wall based on the product measurements. I personally thought 46" seemed a little small (like you said, Juggy), but man, jumping up to a 50" screen is fairly expensive, even though it would almost certainly be worth it. I hate to spend THAT much money on a display.

That said, I think my living room gives me plenty of space for a nice surround setup. From what you guys are saying, it looks like I'm going to have to budget a grand or so just for speakers. That seems like a lot, but I definitely agree that the audio experience is going to make a huge difference in the whole theater, and you get what you pay for. I wasn't planning on spending nearly that much, so I'm going to have to re-work my budget for this.

Juggs, what what did you mean about the PS3's better media capabilities? Aside from having a BR player, does it have features that the XBox doesn't?

[Foo]

just checked out the price of internal bluray drives and they're almost half what I expected... and most of them seem to be hd-dvd/bluray combo drives.

I think I'll pick one up sometime very soon.

I don't need write functionality yet...

So what output does a PC use for this -- the VGA connector doesn't output the same quality as HDMI, does it?

If so, it almost seems like a no-brainer to go this route, as long as the remote provides the same functionality as it does with a normal DVD player.

HDMI's video signal format is the same as DVI so you use a DVI to HDMI lead to output to your telly.

Some nvidia cards also do audio over the same sockets nowadays, I hear. Otherwise you run that as a seperate line.

[R00k]

This would require a sound card that supports at least 5.1 as well, I guess.

How is Linux support for this sort of thing, any idea? Are there pretty solid drivers and software out there for everything? The BR player and media center would be a pretty important part of the whole system, so I'd like to be able to get everything running, and then just leave it alone for the most part -- i.e. not having to update drivers/software to get around problems all the time, that sort of thing.

Is there anyone here who runs a Linux media center already?

[Fender]

For speakers, just build it piece by piece. First, a decent pair of fronts, then the center, then the surrounds then a sub. Just wait 6 months or so between each purchase. That's what I did. You can pickup something halfway decent for each stage for $150 or so, except maybe the sub.
fronts $150 for the pair
center $150 Don't skimp, something like 60% of the info in a movie comes from the center channel.
surrounds $150 for the pair
sub $300 or so, a good 8" or decent 10" should be good enough for a room of your size (sounds about like mine 20'x18', viewing position is 13' from the TV)
That's only $750 total and you'll be happier in the long run. Granted it won't be top-end gear, but it will sound quite a bit better than some system in a box for the same price.

As for TV size:
http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

[+JuggerNaut+]

re: the ps3 media capabilities - for me tversity works better on the ps3 compared to my 360 (less hang ups) and it was easier to network it to my server compared to the 360. that's just my experience, but it is what it is.

i hear ya on the 50, that's what i got, but it was a bit of a jump over a 46 money wise. i'm glad i did though, because at 10 ft, sometimes i complain i shouldn't have gone bigger.

[+JuggerNaut+]

before you go buying L/R speakers though, make sure you know exactly which center you want. the timbre matching is very important across the front soundstage - not so much with the rears (or sides if you're going 7.1)

[R00k]

Thanks, I'll keep all that in mind too then.

For speakers, just build it piece by piece. First, a decent pair of fronts, then the center, then the surrounds then a sub. Just wait 6 months or so between each purchase. That's what I did. You can pickup something halfway decent for each stage for $150 or so, except maybe the sub.
fronts $150 for the pair
center $150 Don't skimp, something like 60% of the info in a movie comes from the center channel.
surrounds $150 for the pair
sub $300 or so, a good 8" or decent 10" should be good enough for a room of your size (sounds about like mine 20'x18', viewing position is 13' from the TV)
That's only $750 total and you'll be happier in the long run. Granted it won't be top-end gear, but it will sound quite a bit better than some system in a box for the same price.

As for TV size:
http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

Interesting. According to that, in order to benefit from 1080p at my viewing distance, I'd need a 100-inch screen.

This makes me wonder if it would be worth it to buy a projector.... Even though it would be a bitch to run everything else through it, without some sort of HDMI switching box or something, right?

[R00k]

It seems my wall is almost the perfect dimensions for a 100" screen, but my wife just doesn't like projectors. Even though we'd probably be able to get twice the viewing size for just a few hundred more dollars.

And I was starting to get excited about it. =(

[Therac-25]

This would require a sound card that supports at least 5.1 as well, I guess.

How is Linux support for this sort of thing, any idea? Are there pretty solid drivers and software out there for everything? The BR player and media center would be a pretty important part of the whole system, so I'd like to be able to get everything running, and then just leave it alone for the most part -- i.e. not having to update drivers/software to get around problems all the time, that sort of thing.

Is there anyone here who runs a Linux media center already?

I don't currently (my last attempt was pre-HD), but I've considered getting a BR burner, now that I have a display that can actually display all the pixels in an HD movie. (BR readers are cheap enough to be standard. But there's no real point in just upgrading to a reader for $80.)

BR is a mixed bag. There's no legal way to playback BR movies on Linux in general right now -- like the the early days of DVD. If you go that route, you'll probably want to hang out on doom9 while you try and make it work.

I'm under the impression that it "works", for varying definitions of "works", depending on the studio that released the BR movie, what key(s) they used, and what audio codec it happens to use. None of it is even close to legal re: DMCA, though, if you care about following unjust laws.

[+JuggerNaut+]

ps3 it is then.

[R00k]

Yep, thanks Therac, it doesn't sound like I'll be going with Linux for a BR player.

We could probably start a whole new thread on how I feel about DRM, copy protection and rights to create media in BR format. But the important thing to me right now is that it works reliably, and it sounds like Linux may still take some time to get there.

So, either a PS3 or a standalone BR player. I was leaning toward the PS3, but I've talked to some other people who've had both, who think the Xbox is better to have, if you're getting it strictly for gaming.

So I guess I'm still a little on the fence for the console.

The television is going to be the first thing I buy, probably in the next couple of months. And even though I started out fairly certain that I was going to buy a Samsung LCD, I'm really starting to like the idea of a good projector, and want to go check them out in person somewhere, but the wife is still rigidly opposed to them for some reason. I believe she still thinks of projectors the way they were 10 years ago, and she probably hasn't seen how nice some of the newer ones are.
To me it's just a question of how far away I need it to get the size display I want, and if it's even possible for me to set it up in my room where people won't be getting in front of it.

[R00k]

re: the ps3 media capabilities - for me tversity works better on the ps3 compared to my 360 (less hang ups) and it was easier to network it to my server compared to the 360. that's just my experience, but it is what it is.

i hear ya on the 50, that's what i got, but it was a bit of a jump over a 46 money wise. i'm glad i did though, because at 10 ft, sometimes i complain i shouldn't have gone bigger.

I had to look up tversity to find out what it was. And that sounds really cool. I'm going to have to look into it more.

And I believe I'm on board with you -- if I can't do the large projection screen, then I'll definitely be going 50" or more.

The wife's on board with spending $2000 on the display, so I believe my budget's bumped up a bit. I've started settling her into the idea that we're probably going to spend around 5 grand on everything over the next year.


At the end of the day, I want a home theater where I can watch Planet Earth in all its glory, and watch the Star Wars space battles and feel like I'm seeing them for the first time.... Among other things, of course, from football to Iron Man. >=)

This is the first time in nearly 3 years that I've even allowed myself to THINK about making any major purchases. I've had the new house, wedding, honeymoon, holidays and everything else to worry about. So she's not sure what to think about how excited I'm getting and how much time I'm putting into researching everything. lol

[R00k]

And thanks for all the help you guys are offering, btw. Once I start, I'll be posting up pics of what I'm doing.

[Therac-25]

Yep, thanks Therac, it doesn't sound like I'll be going with Linux for a BR player.

We could probably start a whole new thread on how I feel about DRM, copy protection and rights to create media in BR format. But the important thing to me right now is that it works reliably, and it sounds like Linux may still take some time to get there.

Depending on your opinion of the legalities, it's not even "there" for normal media playback, including standard DVDs, yet. Anything CSS encoded still needs to be cracked. It's just most players have support for libdecss, even though it's not shipped by default.

It'll be the same story for HD content -- a series of semi-legal and outright illegal hacks will be adopted by the community in order to make shit work, and even then you're not promised anything. The "safest" current route would be to buy shitloads of hard drives (it's at what -- $1 / 10G now?) and automate ripping them.

[+JuggerNaut+]

sounds good rookeh, keep us posted, or i'll bump this bitch.

[R00k]

Okay, it's taken quite a bit longer than I expected, but I've finally made a couple purchases and my living room is a much more enjoyable place.

A few weeks ago I bought a 52" Samsung LCD (240Hz), and a Panasonic Blu-Ray player. So far I've picked up Planet Earth, The Dark Knight, Apocalypto and Ronin.
When I first got the television home I thought it looked awkward and huge in my room, but after a couple of weeks I've gotten so used to it that I think I need a bigger one. lol
I am loving the picture on this television. Aside from Ronin, all the discs I've bought so far seem to be perfect showcases for what Blu-Ray was meant to be, and it's dead sexy.

Then, last weekend, I bought a 360.

I wanted to make sure I got a racing game, but I'm not as into sims as I am arcades, so I picked up NFS: Shift along with Left 4 Dead 2 (got em for $35 a piece the day after Thanksgiving).

I've been really happy with the 360. I connected it to my Windows 7 Media Center so I can play all the movies/music/pics on my PC (not a dedicated one yet, but it'll do for now) - not to mention the fact that I can control it with my Logitech Harmony remote. I also used the Zune service to download Transformers 2 in HD and watch it before I went to the Titans game yesterday. I gotta say, as consoles go, I'm extremely happy with the Xbox.

Right now I have everything on a side table and a couple of short bookshelves, so I don't want to post up any pics just yet, but our new entertainment center should be here in the next few days, and I'll definitely snap some to share once it's all setup.

Thanks for all your help guys - I haven't forgotten.

Next step: a surround system!