Battlestar.Galactica.S04E11 (spoilers)

[phantasmagoria]

Helen had better not be the fifth, Helen was irritating.

Also, did the crashed Starbuck pilot have blonde hair? could it be the male Starbuck from the original BSG? They're always banging on about the past repeating itself.

Or, if Earth is supposesly a Cylon planet, is Starbuck a Cylon?

[GONNAFISTYA]

I'm a Cylon.

[obsidian]

no me.

[Tsakali]

not that you know of....you hear that?!

[GONNAFISTYA]

no u.

[Therac-25]

Helen had better not be the fifth, Helen was irritating.

Also, did the crashed Starbuck pilot have blonde hair? could it be the male Starbuck from the original BSG? They're always banging on about the past repeating itself.

Or, if Earth is supposesly a Cylon planet, is Starbuck a Cylon?

You saw a copy of Kara in Tyrol's flashback in the market, didn't you?



Besides, the hybrid already said there were 13. And I think that these numbers are breaking down, now that it appears as if the Cylons are possibly human ancestors.

[megami]

that isn't kara

[Therac-25]

that isn't kara

it's hard to tell. there's not a frame with a good closeup. the point is rather moot though, as kara found her old body in her old viper.

if she died on earth on her first trip there, that implies there's some legacy resurrection technology within range of earth. there are obviously more cylons around somewhere beyond the ones that cavil is in charge of.

[Therac-25]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... 9207.story

12 is Ellen, FWIW. But there are (at least) thirteen -- "The missing three will give you the five that come from the home of the thirteenth." That would make Kara thirteen.

[Whiskey 7]

............. it appears as if the Cylons are possibly human ancestors.

Now that is an interesting thought

[Whiskey 7]

Trying to delete double post...

[losCHUNK]

wait, wait a miniute... did she shoot herself ? i thought it was someone from behind but my attention was distracted

[Therac-25]

wait, wait a miniute... did she shoot herself ? i thought it was someone from behind but my attention was distracted

you mean dee? yeah, she did.

on a second viewing, i'm thinking that the watch and jacks she picked up on earth triggered some of her memories of the holocaust. her suicide may have been because of that.

[Cobalt-60]

- the human race evolved on earth. (you're one of them)
- on Earth they created a race of cylons.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Earth.
- eventually the creation evolved and took human form.
- they wiped out the human race and took their place in the universe.
- they colonized space and found Kobol.

^---(this is cylon race#1: aka the Lords of Kobol -- created by the original human race, on Earth)

- cylon race#1 maintained colonies on both Earth and Kobol for many generations.
- eventually, beLIEving themselves to be "human", the descendants of race#1 created a further race of cylons on Kobol.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Kobol.
- eventually these Cylons "evolved" and took human form.
- they fought a war with their creators on Kobol; they wiped out their masters and took their place in the universe.
- they form the 12 colonies.
- AT THE SAME TIME, a 13th vessel is launched towards Earth -- to finish the job of destroying their creator-race

^---( this is cylon race#2: aka The Colonials -- created by the Lords of Kobol, on Kobol)


- cylon race #2 maintained the 12 colonies for many generations.
- eventually, beLIEving themselves to be human, the descendants of race#2 created a further race of cylons on Caprica.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Caprica.
- eventually these cylons evolved and took human form.
- they fought a war with their creators on Caprica ... and this has all happened before and will all happen again...

^---(this is cylon race#3: the ones we know and love -- created by the Colonials, on Caprica)

-================-

its telling, that the destruction of earth happened 2000 years ago at the same time as the destruction of Kobol. that suggests (a) that the same race who destroyed Kobol also destroyed Earth. (and Kobol was destroyed when the (so-called)"human" race stood up to its gods and fought back). and (b) it suggests that the earthlings and the 'lords of kobol' are the same race; that the offspring of this race wiped out their creator-race on kobol, and then travelled to earth to finish the job.

this means Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, Tory (and now Ellen) come from the race known as the "Lords of Kobol". they are "the Gods", from a colonials POV. they are (also) the first generation of cylon, who were created by the original human race, on Earth. these cylons killed the human race and took their place in the universe over 3500 years ago. they were killed, in turn, 2000 years ago, when their creation did the exact same thing in return.

the Colonials are the second generation of cylon -- they attacked the first generation and nuked both Kobol and Earth ~2000 years ago; the "cylons" are the third generation -- they attacked the second generation in the pilot episode.

---> HERA is a hybrid between between generation 2&3 (she has a "special destiny") ...and...

*drumroll*

---> STARBUCK is a hybrid between generation 1&2 ; Starbuck is the "Hera" of the previous cycle.

[MKJ]

oh

[Therac-25]

- the human race evolved on earth. (you're one of them)
- on Earth they created a race of cylons.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Earth.
- eventually the creation evolved and took human form.
- they wiped out the human race and took their place in the universe.
- they colonized space and found Kobol.

^---(this is cylon race#1: aka the Lords of Kobol -- created by the original human race, on Earth)

- cylon race#1 maintained colonies on both Earth and Kobol for many generations.
- eventually, beLIEving themselves to be "human", the descendants of race#1 created a further race of cylons on Kobol.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Kobol.
- eventually these Cylons "evolved" and took human form.
- they fought a war with their creators on Kobol; they wiped out their masters and took their place in the universe.
- they form the 12 colonies.
- AT THE SAME TIME, a 13th vessel is launched towards Earth -- to finish the job of destroying their creator-race

^---( this is cylon race#2: aka The Colonials -- created by the Lords of Kobol, on Kobol)


- cylon race #2 maintained the 12 colonies for many generations.
- eventually, beLIEving themselves to be human, the descendants of race#2 created a further race of cylons on Caprica.
- for a time, both creation and creator lived in harmony on Caprica.
- eventually these cylons evolved and took human form.
- they fought a war with their creators on Caprica ... and this has all happened before and will all happen again...

^---(this is cylon race#3: the ones we know and love -- created by the Colonials, on Caprica)

-================-

its telling, that the destruction of earth happened 2000 years ago at the same time as the destruction of Kobol. that suggests (a) that the same race who destroyed Kobol also destroyed Earth. (and Kobol was destroyed when the (so-called)"human" race stood up to its gods and fought back). and (b) it suggests that the earthlings and the 'lords of kobol' are the same race; that the offspring of this race wiped out their creator-race on kobol, and then travelled to earth to finish the job.

this means Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, Tory (and now Ellen) come from the race known as the "Lords of Kobol". they are "the Gods", from a colonials POV. they are (also) the first generation of cylon, who were created by the original human race, on Earth. these cylons killed the human race and took their place in the universe over 3500 years ago. they were killed, in turn, 2000 years ago, when their creation did the exact same thing in return.

the Colonials are the second generation of cylon -- they attacked the first generation and nuked both Kobol and Earth ~2000 years ago; the "cylons" are the third generation -- they attacked the second generation in the pilot episode.

---> HERA is a hybrid between between generation 2&3 (she has a "special destiny") ...and...

*drumroll*

---> STARBUCK is a hybrid between generation 1&2 ; Starbuck is the "Hera" of the previous cycle.

umm, okay.

then why are generation 3 cylons so obsessed with the "final 5" generation 1 cylons? how do they know about them, if the generation 2 are completely ignorant of them?

also, why did the generation 3 cylons call off the attack after scanning a generation 1 cylon in 4x01?

edit: it also leaves out the issue of generation 3's creator. cavil goes on and on about how their creator has a plan, and restricted them from thinking about the final 5 -- but this is nonsense if they created themselves. generation 3 created by generation 1 for purposes of revenge? the gen 3 cylons ran away from the "humans" for a long period of time before coming back in human form. they could have "evolved" with help from gen 1.

or it could just be taken at face value, and the humans were human all along. gen 1 cylons helped gen 3 cylons to evolve out of a sense of "racial loyalty" after they were driven from the 12 colonies, and then they (led by cavil) decided to take revenge on the humans.

[Jackal]

Ellen is the fifth. There's an interview out with RDM where he explicitly states it.

[losCHUNK]

wait, wait a miniute... did she shoot herself ? i thought it was someone from behind but my attention was distracted

you mean dee? yeah, she did.

on a second viewing, i'm thinking that the watch and jacks she picked up on earth triggered some of her memories of the holocaust. her suicide may have been because of that.

hmm, she seemed quite happy when she pulled the trigger tho, if it triggered some memories then there may of been a bit of a reaction ?

they best have a good explanation

the show still owns, i enjoyed the ep im kinda disapointed about some of the character developments though :/

[Jackal]

Huh? Dee was falling apart throughout the entire episode. She was happy because she was getting to spend her final moments with Lee - underneath it all however she had already decided to kill herself. She made that decision when she was down on Earth. Dee was like the cheerleader for hope throughout the series. After losing first Billy then Lee the only thing she had left was Earth, which of course ends up being a sham.

Honestly, how can you not get that?

[Cobalt-60]

umm, okay.

then why are generation 3 cylons so obsessed with the "final 5" generation 1 cylons? how do they know about them, if the generation 2 are completely ignorant of them?

also, why did the generation 3 cylons call off the attack after scanning a generation 1 cylon in 4x01?

edit: it also leaves out the issue of generation 3's creator. cavil goes on and on about how their creator has a plan, and restricted them from thinking about the final 5 -- but this is nonsense if they created themselves. generation 3 created by generation 1 for purposes of revenge? the gen 3 cylons ran away from the "humans" for a long period of time before coming back in human form. they could have "evolved" with help from gen 1.

or it could just be taken at face value, and the humans were human all along. gen 1 cylons helped gen 3 cylons to evolve out of a sense of "racial loyalty" after they were driven from the 12 colonies, and then they (led by cavil) decided to take revenge on the humans.

the generation 3 cylons have only existed for 60 years. at the time of the first war on caprica, 30 years ago, there were NO skinjobs. the generation 3 cylons left caprica after the first war and they discovered the generation 1 skinjobs out in space -- who helped them to "evolve", in exchange for carrying out "Teh Plan".

so , yes: gen1 helped gen3 to evolve. (this is why the gen3 raider wouldn't fire on the gen1 skinjob)

but "Teh Plan" is not revenge -- its reunification.


-============-


from an interview with Ron Moore:

The crazy thing about this is, even without Ellen, even without Dee, we also got a ton of information or clues about what happened on Earth and what happened with the Colonies in the past. I could spend an hour asking you questions about that. Tigh and Baltar are offering this theory that the Cylons are the 13th tribe and they found this planet and they called it Earth. Are we to read that as a theory or as fact?

RON MOORE: I think you can read that as fact.

full interview

problem with Moore's statement: the "cylons" we know and love have only existed for 60 years. its impossible for them to have founded the 13th colony -- UNLESS we fudge the definition of "cylon"

ie: in that interview, Ron moore is confirming that "cylons" existed before humans, and also, that these "cylons" were attacked on earth 2000 years ago ---BUT--- if you go back 2000 years, well, thats the time period where the newly created "humans" were rebelling against / attacking the "lords of kobol".(he's telling us that the "lords of Kobol" were cylons)

--> he gave it away

ancient "cylons" created the (so-called)human race on Kobol, who in turn created the modern "cylon" race on caprica.
"this has all happened before and will all happen again . (and what is "THIS"?)
(it is the creation of synthetic-life-with-an-Oedipus-Complex -- each generation created BY the last)

[Therac-25]

ancient "cylons" created the (so-called)human race on Kobol, who in turn created the modern "cylon" race on caprica.
"this has all happened before and will all happen again . (and what is "THIS"?)
(it is the creation of synthetic-life-with-an-Oedipus-Complex -- each generation created BY the last)

the humans don't have to be "artificial" in the same sense the cylons are. they could have been cloned from genetic stock by the first cylons, out of a sense of guilt or somesuch.

[Doombrain]

lol

[LawL]

Strong virgins.

[losCHUNK]

Huh? Dee was falling apart throughout the entire episode. She was happy because she was getting to spend her final moments with Lee - underneath it all however she had already decided to kill herself. She made that decision when she was down on Earth. Dee was like the cheerleader for hope throughout the series. After losing first Billy then Lee the only thing she had left was Earth, which of course ends up being a sham.

Honestly, how can you not get that?

my bad, i completely forgot she broke down at the beginning, i just remember her picking up some shit....

and that works, if youre a stupid bitch

dont think it triggered any memories in her though, like saul, chief etc

[Whiskey 7]

...............................ancient "cylons" created the (so-called)human race on Kobol, who in turn created the modern "cylon" race on caprica.
"this has all happened before and will all happen again . (and what is "THIS"?)
(it is the creation of synthetic-life-with-an-Oedipus-Complex -- each generation created BY the last)

Thanks for the precis Cobalt-60 I wondered how and why It ahs always intrigued me.

I have to add comment Cobalt-60,

Great lurker Welcome

Cobalt-60
Recruit

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 3