The Pirate Bay Trial

[Dark Metal]

You can rent DVD's and games or watch Trailers and play demos... And download individual tracks... The Kit Kat analogy isn't perfect but it draws a reasonable parallel. If instead of you stealing the first Kit Kat, Nestle would send a free one to your house. That's ok. The issue with the "I try it first by pirating it then if it's good I buy it" is that the company that owns the property isn't authorizing you to do so. I think it most certainly can lead to increased sales, but it's up to the owner of the property to decide if and when to provide some of it's content for free.

[YourGrandpa]

DM, I get your point. Howerver, lets look at the Kit Kat analogy from another point of view.

Lets say I don't really like chocolate and rarely buy it. But I see a Kit Kat commercial on TV and decide (while I'm in the store) to pocket one. I eat said Kit Kat and get hooked. Now I'm buying Kit Kats like they're going out of style. I turn into a Kit Kat Crack head and spend myself into poverty buying their tasty goodness. Now they have all my money and I'm living on the street, all because I fell for their advertising and stole 1 Kit Kat. Fucking Kit Kats. They're so good. But I bet Kit Kat wouldn't give me back one red cent.

Now there is another side to that story. I could have hated the Kit Kat and thrown it in the trash, never to buy another again. However, their advertising did get me to try one.

The difference between intellectual property and physical property is, physical property has a true monetary value that can be measured per unit. Intellectual property has an original production cost that can only be measured by its whole. So if I steal a Kit Kat that I never would have bought, I cause a true monetary loss. But if I steal a movie that I never would have paid for, nobody loses. In fact, I may enjoy the movie and tell others to go see it.

Just another point of view

[YourGrandpa]

Edit Edit...

[Grandpa Stu]

if i pirate a movie and hate it i'd then go tell all my friends and associates how crappy the movie was and that they should never watch it. i've just now robbed the movie profits it might have otherwise seen since some of those people i told were planning on seeing that movie in the theater, buying it on dvd or renting it.

[Dark Metal]

DM, I get your point. Howerver, lets look at the Kit Kat analogy from another point of view.

Lets say I don't really like chocolate and rarely buy it. But I see a Kit Kat commercial on TV and decide (while I'm in the store) to pocket one. I eat said Kit Kat and get hooked. Now I'm buying Kit Kats like they're going out of style. I turn into a Kit Kat Crack head and spend myself into poverty buying their tasty goodness. Now they have all my money and I'm living on the street, all because I fell for their advertising and stole 1 Kit Kat. Fucking Kit Kats. They're so good. But I bet Kit Kat wouldn't give me back one red cent.

That's fucking retarded, and there's no parallel to be drawn from this example. It's like saying that it's ok to steal an Xbox as long as you buy the games.

Now there is another side to that story. I could have hated the Kit Kat and thrown it in the trash, never to buy another again. However, their advertising did get me to try one.

The difference between intellectual property and physical property is, physical property has a true monetary value that can be measured per unit. Intellectual property has an original production cost that can only be measured by its whole. So if I steal a Kit Kat that I never would have bought, I cause a true monetary loss. But if I steal a movie that I never would have paid for, nobody loses. In fact, I may enjoy the movie and tell others to go see it.

Just another point of view

You are incorrect. The value of something, either intellectual or physical is set by the demand in the marketplace. If a Kit Kat was $50 do you think anyone would buy one if you could get a Coffee Crisp for $1? Hell no.The development costs that major corporations undertake to produce movies, games and applications. Paying staff, buying technology, developing new techniques all involve cost. Those costs are flexible but are also fixed to what level of product are produced. The company that produces that product then decides how to distribute this product, market the product, promote the product, and at what price to sell it. All of those involve costs. In the case of movies, which you've chosen to use, you have as much opportunity to rent the movie as you do to pirate it. Rental "sales" are forecasted into the future profits of said product. When you don't fork over the $5 to rent the movie, you impact sales of the DVD (Or BLU-RAY) to rental companies, because they forecast less demand for it and therefore order less of it.

If you want to steal the movies like so many of us do, I don't have a problem with it, but to do so by saying that your theft isn't impactful and in fact might be positive is ludicrous.

[YourGrandpa]

That's fucking retarded, and there's no parallel to be drawn from this example. It's like saying that it's ok to steal an Xbox as long as you buy the games.

Take a chill pill dude. That was all tongue in cheek. However, there is a substantial difference between stealing physical property and intellectual property.

You are incorrect. The value of something, either intellectual or physical is set by the demand in the marketplace. If a Kit Kat was $50 do you think anyone would buy one if you could get a Coffee Crisp for $1? Hell no.The development costs that major corporations undertake to produce movies, games and applications. Paying staff, buying technology, developing new techniques all involve cost. Those costs are flexible but are also fixed to what level of product are produced. The company that produces that product then decides how to distribute this product, market the product, promote the product, and at what price to sell it. All of those involve costs. In the case of movies, which you've chosen to use, you have as much opportunity to rent the movie as you do to pirate it. Rental "sales" are forecasted into the future profits of said product. When you don't fork over the $5 to rent the movie, you impact sales of the DVD (Or BLU-RAY) to rental companies, because they forecast less demand for it and therefore order less of it.

If you want to steal the movies like so many of us do, I don't have a problem with it, but to do so by saying that your theft isn't impactful and in fact might be positive is ludicrous.

I am not so naive to think that theft of intellectual property doesn’t affect the bottom line. It does. I’m saying that it doesn’t affect the bottom line at a 1 to 1 value (+1 theft = -1 sale). Furthermore, you and I are talking about two different things. You’re talking about how theft causes lost sales of DVDs, CDs and Games. I’m talking about theft of something that you never would have bought. Being that I never would have bought the DVD/CD/Game, I can’t be figured into the projected sales and/or responsible for the losses.

[zeeko]

fuck intellectual property rights.

[obsidian]

Defence lawyers makes their closing statements today, following the recent closing statements by the prosecution. Verdict will be delivered on April 17th.

This trial has been full of lols and absolute failure on the part of the prosecution. On the other hand, the defence has done a top-notch job.

Nilsson went on to say that it has not been established that the bulk of the material accessible via TPB is copyrighted and it has not been shown that any of the material has been exploited commercially. Nilsson says there are grounds to dismiss the indictment. These are i) the operations of TPB are permissible under the law, ii) there is a certain amount of uncertainty as to the technical aspects of the case against TPB and iii) there are serious shortcomings in the investigation against the four.

Summary of the key arguments of the trial here:
http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay- ... ty-090303/

[Fender]

[brisk]

i chuckled

[Foo]

Actually guys, since you've all been getting your coverage of the trial from pro-torrent sources, and therefore only hearing one side of the story, you have a pretty one-sided view of this whole thing, and nothing more.

tl;dr urnal

[Ryoki]

[img]

Hehe

[MKJ]

one sided audiologs

[+JuggerNaut+]

rolfs