Religious "Nones" now 15% of population

[R00k]

That's heartening news to me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2 ... ones_N.htm

[Grudge]

I approve.

[Κracus]

Why don't they just call the atheists like they should? none? That's just stupid.

[Grudge]

No, you're stupid.

[R00k]

Maybe because that was their actual answer on the survey? O_o

[plained]

yea this should help theese people with thier troubleing unsettleing doubts

prolly help them to see they have companys

[scared?]

lol religion...

[Κracus]

Maybe because that was their actual answer on the survey? O_o

Exactly, and that's my gripe, instead of putting atheist they put none. Why do they do that? I suspect it's because being an atheist has a stigma attatched to it and that most Americans probably don't know wtf an atheist is even though they don't beleive in religion. Althought they could be agnostic but that should be a choice too.

Ironicly too, today TIMES published an article casting doubt on the writings of Flavius Josephus (I know, what a name) and I've been writing about this for about 2 years now stating that his works were false and now scholars have "discovered" that his journals were likely falsified like I've been saying all along.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... ml?cnn=yes

I know my religious shit.

[plained]

eh lol religons or non-religons

theyre all excited wooo!

[scared?]

god...kracus is a moron...

[werldhed]

Maybe because that was their actual answer on the survey? O_o

Exactly, and that's my gripe, instead of putting atheist they put none. Why do they do that? I suspect it's because being an atheist has a stigma attatched to it and that most Americans probably don't know wtf an atheist is even though they don't beleive in religion. Althought they could be agnostic but that should be a choice too.

Ironicly too, today TIMES published an article casting doubt on the writings of Flavius Josephus (I know, what a name) and I've been writing about this for about 2 years now stating that his works were false and now scholars have "discovered" that his journals were likely falsified like I've been saying all along.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... ml?cnn=yes

I know my religious shit.

Did you read the article?

[bitWISE]

On a related note...I had to keep my mouth shut and just be disappointed last weekend at my mom's birthday dinner. We were sitting around the living room and since I had control of the remote we were flipping between the various science channels. Topgear had just finished up so I switched to a show about the crystal cave on natgeo. There was a biologist hunting for life inside the chamber's extreme conditions and when she said something about evolution my grandma chirped something like "oh you're wrong there dear". So I mentally facepalmed while she explained how a guy who had started a creation science museum outside of Cincinnati had just spoken at their church. Apparently evolution had been proven wrong, there was scientific evidence that carbon dating was wrong, and man existed 6000 years ago with the dinosaurs. What really surprised me is that she is actually a pretty intelligent woman (has a masters degree and specialized in teaching disabled adults). I guess I'm not all that surprised as she now spends all her retired time volunteering at the church and teaches sunday school.

I can't decide whether I want to be busy when she gets around to planning a family trip to the museum or study up and see how well trained their staff is at misinformation.

Why don't they just call the atheists like they should? none? That's just stupid.

So you're saying atheism is a religion?

[Κracus]

no I'm saying if you have no religion you're either an atheist or an agnostic. So don't fuck around calling it none and call it what it's supposed to be. I think they're just not doing it cause they think people won't know what it means.

[werldhed]

It's a survey, asking which religion people identify themselves as.
If atheist was listed, that would make it a religion, wouldn't it?

[Κracus]

Is none a religion? Neither is atheism. Fuck guys use common sense here, it's really not that hard.

[Fender]

ffs man...

What's your hair color?
brown
black
red
blond
none

Note that bald is not a choice.

[Scourge]

They are both legitimate answers. Although Atheism can mean a couple different things. None is pretty conclusive.

[werldhed]

If I asked you which gender you've had sex with, and you answered, "none", would you call "none" a gender? Of course not.

If however, "goat" was listed, this would imply goat is a gender you've copulated with, even if it technically isn't a gender. If you haven't had sex with any of those genders, you'd still need to be able to answer, "none."

Anyway, it's a moot point, because if you read the article, you'll see the survey was identifying people that don't stop and dwell on religion. As opposed to those that think about it and decide they don't believe. Choosing "atheist" implies you've thought about your beliefs and have made a decision.

[bikkeldesnikkel]

no I'm saying if you have no religion you're either an atheist or an agnostic. So don't fuck around calling it none and call it what it's supposed to be. I think they're just not doing it cause they think people won't know what it means.

You're not either atheist or agnostic, they're not mutually exclusive. Agnosticism only refers to a logical truth value of... whatever can not be fully known, exactly why it's a retarded stance btw. Being 'agnostic' is meaningless unless it is further specified. You can also be an agnostic theist for example. So you're wrong.

[Grudge]

Hey Kracus, ever heard of ignosticism or theological noncognitivism?

There are other ways of being non-religious than only atheism and agnosticism.

There is also apatheism, which is likely what most people who answer "none" are (consciously or not) adherants of.

[Κracus]

I have heard of Ignosticism and noncognitivsm and I feel they're both a form of agnosticism just more specific. They both revolve around the idea that it's impossible to prove the existance of god. Which to me, sounds like agnosticism. Determinism is like this too where there's specific names for specific version of determinism but the overall idea still falls under determinism.

I had never heard of apatheism however. Which sounds really weird to be honest, it's like a complete denial of concepts that exist, I don't even know why they'd concider it form of theism really...

[Κracus]

no I'm saying if you have no religion you're either an atheist or an agnostic. So don't fuck around calling it none and call it what it's supposed to be. I think they're just not doing it cause they think people won't know what it means.

You're not either atheist or agnostic, they're not mutually exclusive. Agnosticism only refers to a logical truth value of... whatever can not be fully known, exactly why it's a retarded stance btw. Being 'agnostic' is meaningless unless it is further specified. You can also be an agnostic theist for example. So you're wrong.

I don't see where I'm contradicting what you're saying. In fact I agree with you for the most part.

[Κracus]

If I asked you which gender you've had sex with, and you answered, "none", would you call "none" a gender? Of course not.

If however, "goat" was listed, this would imply goat is a gender you've copulated with, even if it technically isn't a gender. If you haven't had sex with any of those genders, you'd still need to be able to answer, "none."

Anyway, it's a moot point, because if you read the article, you'll see the survey was identifying people that don't stop and dwell on religion. As opposed to those that think about it and decide they don't believe. Choosing "atheist" implies you've thought about your beliefs and have made a decision.

Yeah but your analogy doesn't fit with the example we're talking about.

[R00k]

Kracus, the "None" is what peopled answered when asked their religious identity. So what if it had read something like this:

What religion do you identify with? (or How would you describe your religious identity?)
A. Christianity
B. Islam
C. Judaism
D. Atheism

I'm an atheist, and if I saw a poll like that I would scratch out Atheism and write in "None," specifically BECAUSE atheism is a lack of religion - not a religion in itself.

How hard is this to understand?

[KingManULTRA]

I am an atheist who dislikes most atheists. I just have a strong dislike of self-righteous, rude assholes in general.