atheist3world

[bitWISE]

So I've never really came to a position with regards to my partner's religious views and I'm curious how others have approached the issue, especially those who have married or have kids.

For me I'm thinking it boils down to tolerance being a two-way street. I can accept the fact that someone was raised into faith and due to their life experiences/knowledge, hasn't come to the same conclusion as myself. You can't yet (can we ever, do you think?) disprove god with 100% certainty so who am I to judge a believer? However, is there a certain type of believer where I feel the need to draw a line. Obviously, they have to be tolerant of my choice otherwise this is a moot point entirely. But what about a "6000 year old Earth, Jesus riding raptors, evolution is a lie" believer? Is it wrong of me to classify them with the other morons I wouldn't waste my time dating or should tolerance extend to their full set of beliefs? I suppose the whole situation wouldn't matter as long as compromise could be made but I don't know how you would fairly compromise when it comes to raising a child. It seems like raising the kid in or out of church would be a huge factor in their own choice.

[Peenyuh]

If the gap is that big, it should be remedied way before you have children. Obviously there are a whole lot of things that need to happen in a relationship, as long as the views of each aren't too far apart, compromises can be made for the benefit of the child. Something like ones beliefs and philosophies concerning ones existence seem to be one of the bigger ones. Even if there's a slight difference in a view of God, that rift can grow explosively. Are you saying that yer partner believes in God and that you do not? I think that, if you have a child, the conflict will eventually cause some serious damage to all three of you.Tolerance is mandatory, but compromise is the call of the day when the effect encompasses the future of another life. When it comes to Faith, morals, and baseball, compromise is a rare thing.

[bitWISE]

Yea. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't even be religion. And that is a pretty alienating opinion around here. But I'm not a confrontational person so I don't really enjoy debating/arguing on the subject of religion. I'm certainly never going to be the singular voice to change anyone's mind so why bother.

But yea peenyuh, I've always been afraid of exactly what you're saying. I'd certainly be willing to compromise a lot but its a tough issue to think about ahead of time.

[mjrpes]

If you are an atheist, I don't know how a long term relationship can work with someone who believes in a 6,000 year old earth. Romantic love has its charm and is nice while it lasts, but when it wears off you're left living with someone who doesn't accept reality.

[Mogul]

This is something I've struggled with too, recently. My last relationship got off to a pretty good start, but when I told her I was an atheist, she pretty much flipped out. Then she started putting me through this "you deceived me" guilt trip until I tried to re-explain my views in a distorted manner that kind of made them fit better with hers. I had to or the relationship (which was overall a pretty good one) was going to end right there on the spot.

After we broke up several months later, I found myself trying to figure out what I could do in the future to avoid this kind of thing. Around here (I live in the "Bible Belt," and yes I hate that term), pretty much everyone is some kind of Christian. For most people here, it's just expected of you to be one. So my feeling is that in order to find someone to eventually marry (which I am pretty sure I do want in life), it will almost definitely end up being a Christian. I don't know how to deal with this. I guess I could try moving to a different place, but I don't want to move, really. This is my home and I love it here.

I have even considered becoming a Christian, if it comes down to it, in order to make it work. That sounds like the worst solution by far and something I hope I don't have to resort to, ever. Another alternative is just staying as silent and ambiguous on the subject as possible, and try to evade confrontations. Of course it's preferable to just find someone who shares my views, but the chances of finding someone like that, here, who isn't a fatty boombah is pretty small.

[Transient]

I have even considered becoming a Christian, if it comes down to it, in order to make it work. That sounds like the worst solution by far and something I hope I don't have to resort to, ever. Another alternative is just staying as silent and ambiguous on the subject as possible, and try to evade confrontations.

That's a bad, bad idea...

[seremtan]

Yea. I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't even be religion.

the major moral problem for anyone rejecting the religion into which they are born (or which is the dominant religion in their neck of the planet) is the one nietzsche identified: it just won't do to live in the hollowed out shell (morally speaking) of the religion you've rejected (which is pretty much what the standard wishy-washy liberalism of most people in europe and many in north america amounts to doing). you have to find a new set of values. obviously this would make debate with religious people impossible in any meaningful sense, if you no longer shared any basic principles

[bitWISE]

Sorry to hear that Mogul. The reason this came to my mind is a new girl I just met very likely has an incompatible viewpoint but on all other accounts she is worth pursuing. Part of me wants to just be upfront but the other part of me just wants to see where it goes.

[Captain]

I'd say play it by ear and don't mention it, assuming she won't be eager to do so as well. You'll have a clearer picture a few months into your relationship and see if she cares enough about you not to let her religion get in the way of love.

Religion should never come before family and friends.

[DooMer]

So she doesn't put out, or she's just a believer when it's convenient? That's against their beliefs, right?

[bitWISE]

So she doesn't put out, or she's just a believer when it's convenient? That's against their beliefs, right?

She does seem flexible with her beliefs from what I've experienced. So that does give me hope.

[Whiskey 7]

........ she is worth pursuing. Part of me wants to just be upfront but the other part of me just wants to see where it goes.

I she is then she is worth your efforts bitWISE. Tread lightly and good luck

btw I've been married 20+ years and the subject (and our possible differences) has never really been raised

Live and let live I say, but I draw the line at fanatical minorities

[Silicone_Milk]

If she's rejecting evolution and thinks the planet is only 6000 years old then the stupid is just going to seep in to other aspects of the relationship and corrode it.

With ~6.7 billion people on the planet, I'm sure you could find a better match.

[tnf]

Problem that you might face is that there isn't a two way street of tolerance with hardcore Christians because they will view it as their calling to convert people to the faith - they don't see it as being intolerant of other beliefs but rather as their benevolent desire to see everyone enjoy the benefits of salvation that ONLY comes through their faith.

People can change though.

[Grandpa Stu]

if you're really concerned about it then just talk to her. you don't have to have a deep ideological discussion on the matter at all. just ask her, "what is your view on religion?" or something along those lines. you might be suprised at how short and insignificant the discussion ends up being.

[MKJ]

must be hard living in a selfproclaimed 'free' country where you are indirectly judged for your religion or lack thereof

[Whiskey 7]

must be hard living in a selfproclaimed 'free' country where you are indirectly judged for your religion or lack thereof

YES

Thanks there MKJ. I thought the exact same thing.....

[plained]

i had a girlfriend 4 19 years and it was never discussed

but i think its a diff scenario tho cuz either of us never had known anything about religions.

now tho everbody does as told and critically judge eachother on thier opinions and not thier charector.

it worked perfect, now its like social de-evolution ,it totally drove people apart.

[kôrupt]

I've found it very hard to date anyone even remotely religious. I certaintly couldn't date someone that was a hardcore blind-faith nutjob. It's come down to the fact that I have no respect for their beliefs which in an effect translates to less respect for them as a whole which is unfair to them.

[Lieutenant Dan]

I avoid most of these problems right from the getgo by asking them about religion fairly soon after meeting a person.

It's worked well for me so far.

With the simple question, you can get a pretty good understanding of their views, and it even leaves you with the second answer, and your choice of how to answer the question when it's turned back on you.

[Eraser]

I couldn't live together with someone that's openly religious. Especially not if she wanted to raise our kids in a religious manner. I'm happy that my girlfriend never fell for that religious nonsense.

[Captain]

^^Agreed and likewise.

[Eraser]

I have even considered becoming a Christian

How does one "become" a Christian?
I've always found it odd when grown adults suddenly turn to a religion. I mean, you either believe in a god and follow all the religious rules that comes with it because you were raised to it or you don't believe in a god. Of course some big, life altering experience can change that view but you can't say "ok, I'm going to be a Christian and believe in god starting tomorrow". It doesn't work like that, does it?

[Eraser]

I'd say play it by ear and don't mention it, assuming she won't be eager to do so as well. You'll have a clearer picture a few months into your relationship and see if she cares enough about you not to let her religion get in the way of love.

Religion should never come before family and friends.

The problem might only arise by the time you're thinking of children. Suddenly she finds it necessary to raise them in a religious way. This may be a problem, but it might not be.

A non-believing girl I know is in a solid relationship with a guy who has a religious background. He doesn't actively pursue it anymore and as far as I know, he doesn't go to church at all anymore. They weren't married and they got their first child. He found it necessary to baptize his child. Where that came from, I don't know. I guess he feels he must do this because of his family, that still is pretty heavy into their religion.
Now the church they said that in order to have their children baptized, they really should be married (because oh noes, sex before marriage, yadda yadda yadda). So they got married.

Now she is easy going with this and is willing to go with it. I guess that is in some way commendable. I wouldn't be able to. I'd never agree with having my children baptized because essentially you're saying that your child is a sinner and the baptizing cleans him of his sins. I find that morally wrong and a very odd thing to do. I also would never marry because a church decides I should.

Since the guy in the relationship isn't hardcore Christian I guess it'll all work out, but if he were, then I wonder how far she would be willing to go with it. The problem is that when you are the atheist, you can say "i don't want any religious crap for my children now" but tomorrow, your partner will bring it up again. The day after tomorrow again. And again. If you agree on baptizing your child, that takes place and cannot be turned back. If you deny baptizing today, then there's still a possibility that she does talk you into it tomorrow.

[Captain]

You're absolutely correct and I could personally never get into a relationship with someone who's religious. Even if things start out well, it will probably get very rough later on. I'm lucky my girlfriend is spiritual at most and we both agree religion is just a waste of one's life.

Most problems in an atheist-religious relationship probably start when the religious families get involved and pass judgment because someone's bringing a "non-believer" into the mix. And marriage for the sake of a dusty old book of magic tricks is just plain wrong, but a common occurrence unfortunately.

Another alternative is just staying as silent and ambiguous on the subject as possible, and try to evade confrontations.

If you can't discuss something with your partner because you feel it'll lead to a confrontation, you're in a wrong relationship.