SolarAE - Solar - AEon's Edit - Final!

[AEon]

I never really looked into Anarki's and Uriel's item priorities, though I found the "config" files that control their preference. You are right they do not pick it up right away, but I have seen it gone often enough, Anarki picks it up. I also saw the bots use both TP exits... since Uriel prefers the GL and Anarki the RG, both normally go for the GL TP exit, much more rarely for the PG. Now one could simply look through the list of bots, and choose another one instead of Uriel, i.e. one that has a stronger PG preference.

On the "bot roam" entity... years ago I experimented with this, and it yielded quite mixed results. I noted that the MH has a "bot roam", and that seems to work fine. Though I am not sure what value to place on the RA... I noted that the Quad attracts both of the bots very much. So that works. Will try adding the "bot roam" for the RA. On that note, when Anarki respawns in the water next to the RA, he usually does *not* go for the RA, he exits directly into the arena. And the bots do not seem to ever walk through the water, they prefer the "striped" ledge above the water. Strange. Maybe the bots hate water .

On the two exits in the TP ... it does not really hinder the game IMO, and is something interestingly new.

Other thoughts:

• Maybe add a 3rd bot... primarily, if you play the game in team mode 2on2... to have that 3rd bot defined.
• The JPs... thinking of speeding up the rotation speed from -100 to -200 or so, and the "rings" matching that speed. It would make sense for the ventilator run more quickly, to add more visual "lift".
• Alas I am not very artistic, concerning the "water drops" in the TP falling from the tube. Maybe you (Hipshot) could please create a better texture for this?
• I'll probably need to recheck the detail shadows, for consistency.
• Item placement is basically there, IMO... I cannot really think of a better placement for the weapons... though the LG placement is still something I am not sure about. The quite large amounts of health everywhere and shards are fine, you actually need them, in this fast-passed game.

[voodoochopstiks]

I really like what you did to the bottom floor, you brought play back down there. And those tubes are pretty fun to move through.

I think you kind of over-connected some parts of the level though with those planks, people have a few too many options now(especially on the top floor), the middle floor suffers from less use now, and it'll be harder intercepting people I think.

The Y-crossing TP confuses me, and will confuse most people even more I think. Also, it kinda teleports you quite close to the mega if you take the one that ends up near there.

I'd also move the RA a lot closer to the teleporter, it's further from the closest cover, and would make it scarier to stand around there. Also makes some fun gambles when you're low on health, concerning daring to stay on the spot and hope for the RA to appear soon or to jump through the tele and get away safely.

[AEon]

... over-connected some parts of the level though with those planks ...
I see what you mean... playing against bots I caught myself staying on the planks... PG to GL to RG... hmmm... the med level suffers a bit, but since some health is there you tend to jump down to get it. One could keep the 50H planks near the PG, but shorten them so you cannot (easily) get to the GL bridge, as a dead end, just to get the 50H. Maybe.

I'd also move the RA a lot closer to the teleporter, ...
Interesting idea, but I like Hipshot's original idea that you can jump down from above, into the water to get the RA, you can also see it from above. As a thought, one could swap the SG and RA positions, to center the RA in the room. Might be worth a try.

[fKd]

things i noticed in terms of gfx, the rock/mud texture on the floor is way to bright. and ya jp fan spins to slow. will get back to ya on gameplay

[monaster]

BTW, I am actually hoping for some more feedback on the almost final SolarAE, go play-test that map in till beta two of this map .

Nice reminding me of it, I almost forgot.
In the corner on the lower level where you collect the armor shards on that slightly altered brush (or patch) you can actually grab 2 or three of the armor shards just by passing by and not even climbing the before-mentioned brush (or patch). I'll do a screenshot if you can't figure out what I mean.
Another (minor) issue has been there let's see if I remember it in the next few days or encounter it after some more quaking.
Probably had something to do with on of the jumppads...

EDIT: Fixed a missing "]" to make Aeon's quote work.

[AEon]

In the corner on the lower level where you collect the armor shards on that slightly altered brush (or patch) you can actually grab 2 or three of the armor shards just by passing by and not even climbing the before-mentioned brush (or patch).

You probably mean the connecting passage on the lower level, between the RL and LG arenas? Yeah, noted that too... the bounding boxes "should" be exactly on edge, so should that of the player scraping along the edge. Could move the items "back" by 1u, that should fix the problem.. if this is indeed a problem... probably is .

[monaster]

You probably mean the connecting passage on the lower level, between the RL and LG arenas? Yeah, noted that too... the bounding boxes "should" be exactly on edge, so should that of the player scraping along the edge. Could move the items "back" by 1u, that should fix the problem.. if this is indeed a problem... probably is .

Yup, that's what I mean. I looked at it again, so I can tell you my "suggestion" (it's not such a big deal anyway ) refers to one armor shard and one small health, which can be picked up anytime running by whereas the other items can't. I had a screenshot prepared to make it more obvious but lycos once again seems to have fucked up things quite nicely, let's see if they recover this time, then I might be able to post that picture. Thankfully you know what I wanted to say.

And here's the other suggestion; especially this one might be a problem only for me and everyone else might not consider this as an issue whatsoever but to be sure: Over-connectivity has been mentioned before. I thought of that as a problem myself when I realised that it is possible to collect the mega health, quad damage AND red armor all together in less than 10 seconds starting with the MH (collecting it just by jumping over the edge and thus not using the diagonal jump pad).
Maybe it helps to change the respawn time of the MH RA and Quad (making it more difficult to collect everything at once)?

[lvlshot]http://members.lycos.co.uk/resiyoyoyo/pics_pub/Aeon_pic.jpg[/lvlshot]

EDIT: Made quote work.
EDIT2: lycos is fine again, so here's the screenshot (just for completion reasons).

[AEon]

@monaster
The 5H and Shards are actually 8u away from the edge in that passage, seems that the bounding box collision detection is a lot less exact than I had thought it would be. Strange.

To directly grab the MH via "cross-jump", been doing that a lot as well. On timing... MH, Quad, RA all using default timing. Not sure a change here would really help, the map is relatively small, so you will be able to get those three items relatively quickly no matter how you place them. Closing off the direct path from the Quad to the RA should have helped here. But when you play against real players these items will not really be available, when you respawn you grab them immediately. What was default spawn time of the Quad? Maybe increase that be 50%, to make it spawn more rarely.

I had been thinking of placing the MH into the far SW corner (where the framed glass tiles dropped from the ceiling). But that does not really help either, IMO.

[monaster]

Default respawn time for quad damage is set at 120 seconds.

But when you play against real players these items will not really be available, when you respawn you grab them immediately.

Yep, this might solve the problem to some point. Considering that, increasing the respawn time of the quad might even contribute negatively when it comes down to fast-paced gameplay? 'Cause right now, this map plays extremely fast (which is good!). Or: raise the water level at the RA's location: then players will think twice about getting the three powerups all at once if they are thwarted. On the other hand you removed hipshots water for exact that very reason...

[AEon]

It's funny, quite a few things in the map I never questioned... it was Hipshot's vision, and I respected it, because as far as I could tell it worked well enough. Placement of MH, RA, Quad, RG, etc...

I am still not sure about the LG placement, but it seems to be customary to place the LG where folks actually have to go out of their way to get it. This used to be the bottom of the pool in Solar. Now it is pretty conveniently on your lower path run.

I'm still thinking about all the suggestions, but other than add the new TP effect Hipshot created for me, the closing off of the windows in the RA room, the deletion of the then useless hint brushes there, closing of the window behind the TP... the map IMO is done and final. OK, I'll try to place the 5H and Shards away from the ledge... if folks want them, jump!

[monaster]

I actually contributed something useful One last thing, this time it's no criticism: whatever you change, keep the free space underneath the teleport ventilation shaft! I suddenly caught myself pumping grenades into it (since there's no weapon clip) standing next to the teleporter and waiting for killing myself because there's not enough space inside that ventilation shaft to NOT hurt yourself with grenade splash damage... it's been a long day...

[AEon]

... the ventilator under the TP will stay. I wonder if any of the wall fans need to be weapon clipped... the grate floors are already clipped, because you need to be able to splash damage your opponents.

[AEon]

Whenever hinting does not get you there, a change in geometry will usually help. The main problematic area in the map is up near the YA looking into the RL arena, especially right into the TP room. So I closed off the direct path under the stairs to the SG, and cut a new passage into the wall next to the tube connecting the RL arena with the Quad. This helped reduce the r_speed, but alas it is still around 11K max. IMO, this also makes the pathing a bit better:

• 

[sumatra]

First of all, really a great piece of work you did.
Had no games on it yet, but I noticed several things:

- The weaponspawnpoints of the LG and the SG are not plain. So if you jump, you can possibly get caught at the edge by pickung up a weapon. That slows down and is annoying IMO.
Maybe you can make those nonsolid or even plain (visualwise make it better nonsolid).

- I think the Jumppad fans move rather slowly. I saw this has already been mentioned yet.
IMO those could get a faster spin to look more realistic.

- The texture of the old Teleporter exit at the PG is confusing. There is no Tele exit anymore, am I right? So I think you should adapt this plate.

- I would put his RA closer the tele as well. Evne switch it with the SG. So you would have more place to fight around RA and the spot is also more dangerous to camp in.

So, now I'm gonna check it out with bots.
Maybe I can come up with some further feedback.

sum

[maz0r]

IMO the ra/tele room is way too easy to control and it will be hard sneaking a ra from there. When moving it even closer to the tele it's almost impossible since all entrances can be covered easily and the drop from above is not possible anymore.

Btw. I still totally dislike your two-way teleporter. Either make it way more clear and visible it has two exists oder just get rid of that stupid (no offense) idea.
While playing it yesterday a quad spawned in the bottom of the map. While I did not play in duel mode (ffa it was) I really hope you already deactivated it for tourney play.

Visually I really like the map (as always when hipshot is involved), maybe it's a tad too reddish all over the place (like sock already mentioned). Also is was quite dark on my machine especially in the darker corners.

[AEon]

@sumatra
The weaponspawnpoints of the LG and the SG are not plain.
Fixed this for the SG... I thought it was clipped but stuck out. For the LG... well it is on a mini dirt mount... not sure what to do here... unless I clip the complete LG arena floor. Hmmm.

I think the Jumppad fans move rather slowly.
Fixed... they now spin 2.5 times as fast, and the "fog" above the TPs rotates faster accordingly.

The texture of the old Teleporter exit at the PG is confusing.
The TP is split and has two exits, near the GL and one near the PG.

I would put his RA closer the tele as well. Even switch it with the SG.
I see I need to release a final beta, I changed the access to the RA, so "camping" there might actually have become *very* viable. Hmmm...


@maz0r
TP 2 exits
Funny how everyone understands the split TP, but still hates it... just learn to use it, nothing to it. The weapon pad texture plates behind the TP effect hint at the exists and so do the exit TP textures.

While playing it yesterday a quad spawned in the bottom of the map. While I did not play in duel mode (ffa it was) I really hope you already deactivated it for tourney play.
Was that ever possible? From the editor code "notfree" will turn off the Quad for FFA *and* Tournament. If everyone agrees to turn off the Quad for Tournament, and tells me the proper key, I'll turn off the Quad for Tourney.

Reddish
I really don't know what the issue here is, the map is almost completely grey/brown, the only color are the red textures. I can agree that the RA room is a bit over the top. To quieten the whining, the next beta will include a map-solarae_soil.pk3 that features a toned down version of the terrain textures. So you can use those if you prefer, or delete the .pk3 to play with the original textures.

Also is was quite dark on my machine especially in the darker corners.
Hmmm... in that case many custom maps must be way too dark on your machine. What areas are too dark exactly?

[AEon]

Solar - AEon's Edit - r116 Beta 3 (last beta)

Changes:

• JP fans run 2.5 times faster.
• The AP to the MH now features a whooshing sound (idea from Pat's phtourney1) , using RL sound.
• Removed two of the metal planks, one above the LG arena, one near the 50H.
• New entrance to RA room added, closed off the more direct path under the stairs.
• New TP effect added (thanks Hipshot), louder water dripping sound, changed window height.
• Windows in RA room closed off, did not yield anything visually, just wasted FPS.
• Added a bit more ammo.
• Actually, finally wrote proper readme files.
• Featuring a map-solarae_soil.pk3 archive with darker toned down red soil textures. Delete this file if you want to play with the original textures, those I prefer.

Download:

• • map-solarae_r116_beta3.zip (8.21 MB) @ hugelaser.com
    (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder, run the map via in-game skirmish button.)

Feedback:

• This is the last beta... unless I am overlooking some serious issues, the map will be released in the next update.
  
  Note: Even though you can play this map in Tourney mode and in Team FFA, it is intended for "fun" FFA.
  
  Hipshot if you have the time, please take a look if you can "live with" this release. Please also read the .txt files, to check if the wording agrees with you.

[AEon]

I can probably release a final of this map pretty soon.

Hipshot, would it be OK if I used some of your Solar textures in AEdm7? I noted that both maps have a similar theme, and e.g. that gate "5" texture and a few others would really help make the map more diverse. I'm also thinking of using "my" JP effect from SolarAE in AEdm7 as well, fans as JPs.

[jal_]

a) Compiling Solar with my default compile options, leads to quite interestingly full colors:

• -light -v -fast -patchshadows -samples 2 -bounce 8 -shade -threads 1

b) Here the light compile as Hipshot intended the lighting:

• -light -v -fast -patchshadows -samples 2 -bounce 8 -gamma 2.5 -compensate 3 -threads 1

Have you tried adding -dirty? The ambient occlusion lighting gives a sweet contrast boost to the maps.

[AEon]

Ambient occlusion?

Presently using for SolarAE:

• -light -v -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8 -gamma 2.5 -compensate 3

For AEcantw2 and AEdm7 I am using:

• -light -v -fast -patchshadows -dark -samples 3 -bounce 8 -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32

[jal_]

ambient oclusion = fancy name for "holes are darker" :P

[AEon]

While playing it yesterday a quad spawned in the bottom of the map. While I did not play in duel mode (ffa it was) I really hope you already deactivated it for tourney play.

Thanks to the things learned in updating the entities.def. I can now remove the Quad from the tourney mode. I'll be keeping it in FFA, but what about in Team DM? Do team players use the Quad?

I'm also thinking of adding some of the AEdm7 rock geometry (not the textures though) to a few areas... maybe.

[cityy]

You should defenitely keep quad in TDM - it's the most important item in team games. If you look at popular team DM maps like q3dm7 itself, q3dm6 or q3dm14 you will notice there is a powerup in - dm14 has even two. Quad and armors in FFA and TDM - MH instead of quad in tourney.

[AEon]

Hmm... would need to think what to put were the Quad is in Tourney mode... since the MH is already int the map. Maybe the MH moves where the Quad is in Tourney, and at the MH location just place a 50H or so.

[Anthem]

Hmm... would need to think what to put were the Quad is in Tourney mode... since the MH is already int the map. Maybe the MH moves where the Quad is in Tourney, and at the MH location just place a 50H or so.

That's probably best. Quad is usually way too overkill in tourney.