Q3min...a freeware version of Q3A

[v1l3]

I was over at Planetquake3 and saw something called Q3min. I was wondering if anyone else has messed around with it?
It runs on the IOQ3 engine, only 92 MB's total. It comes with 3 maps and 5 player models..and doesn't use anything from Q3, it is it's own game, but they re-skinned all of the Q3 weapons(gauntlet through BFG) and they did a pretty good job on them. To add more to the game you have to add Q3 models and download custom maps from ..::LvL that don't use Q3 in-game textures, which means goth maps are completely out the window(which really isn't a loss), for example. I added the Imp, Bunker, Flamer, Cruentus, and Samjai. I added maps...fr3dm1, lun3dm1, halctf2, aedesert, pom_bots, katdm3, nemesis, and Marsv1. Runs fine..

The ammo models friggin rock...I'm really liking the SG, MG, though the LG is pretty eh..it has the Doom PG that has been downloaded quite a bit from Polycount, back when it ran. The coolest thing was that in the Multiplayer, it actually shown servers like IOQ3, unlike Q3 does anymore. ..and unlike IOQ3, it doesn't require pak0-8.pk3's from Q3.

I haven't heard a peep about it here, so I figured I'd give a heads up for it...plus maybe some opinions.

[speaker]

Hi,

Since I am one of the developers of Q3MIN, let me correct a few misunderstandings in v1|3's post (lest some people get the wrong impression). BTW I was planning to make an announcement of our project here, but I did not think that it was time yet to do it. However, I have no choice now.

Q3MIN is a stripped down version of Quake III Arena originally developed by id Software. The aim of this distro is to provide a small clone of Q3A that can be freely distributed, is easy to download and supports game play on custom maps as well as the use of mods created for the original Q3A game. One may say that this is what Openarena should have been. In fact, it uses a lot of material from Openarena (http://openarena.ws). It probably would have been impossible to make Q3MIN w/o all the work done by the OA team.

The original version of Q3MIN was created by me. The starting point was the original game from id Software. I unpacked the 'pak0.pk3' archive, then started to systematically replace in the resulting folder tree all files using free material and remove material that may not be used (id maps, etc.).

I have used the following sources for replacements:

- 'official' Openarena disribution (version 0.8.1)
- the Q3A texture replacement package 'z-gpl-q3a2oa-textures-v5'

Finally, I was able to replace almost everything except for a couple of sounds (they are missing at present but we are working on their replacement). The engine of Q3MIN is based on 'ioquake3' (http://ioquake3.org). I have used version 1.36 (revision 1582). Therefore, Q3MIN does not contain copyrighted material from id Software's original game. It is distributed under the GNU General Public License version 2.

Recently a small community has formed around Q3MIN and now we have our own WEB site (including a forum) at the following URL:

http://q3min.org

The project itself is hosted on Tuxfamily and has an SVN repository for the source code and a simple file repository for artwork and other game data. They can be accessed here:

http://download.tuxfamily.org/q3min
http://websvn.tuxfamily.org/listing.php ... min/source

We have added quite a few things since the first crude version of Q3MIN was made, too many to list here. See the file 'CHANGES.TXT' in the package archive.

At present Q3MIN supports FFA, TEAM and CTF, with or w/o instagib rules. We plan to add more game types (freezetag, domination) later.

I would like to make one thing absolutely clear: Q3MIN is completely compatible with Q3A and is capable of running practically any map made for the original game. It has replacements for almost all the original Q3A textures. I have yet to find a custom map that does not run (I have tested around 50 maps, all from LvL). The package contains only a few built-in maps, mostly for running a quick test after download.

The latest version of Q3MIN can be downloaded here (size about 100 MB):

http://download.tuxfamily.org/q3min/q3min-exp-v069.zip

Speaker

[v1l3]

sorry for what things I got wrong.. =/ I've been using for like 3 days, so... I'm honestly surprised you're a part of it..very cool! I like it quite a bit..I love the fast load up, since it doesn't have to read 500 plus some megs to start up. I've been making a very large .pk3 file loaded with player models and all sorts of sounds..I had to change up the rlboom in my .pk3. I've dissected the guts to every mod for the last 8 years...I have a little bit of everything...of course giving the credit to where it's due uh hmm..all free though. Very fun

[Zyte]

Nice to see ppl are still working on new things.. i can't try it right now but i'll probably check it out, 100mb is pretty small anyways.

You might want to post some sshots as well.. i'd like to see what you have done with the textures, weapons etc..

[missbehaving]

Well there is a stable version available here..
http://download.tuxfamily.org/q3min/q3m ... e-v067.zip

And a few online servers up
http://clanarena.org/arena/q3min-server-browser

There are a bunch of us usually playing insta freezetag in the evenings (GMT)

[speaker]

You might want to post some sshots as well.. i'd like to see what you have done with the textures, weapons etc..

You can see screen shots of our stuff in this older topic:

http://www.quake3forum.com/forum/viewto ... =7&t=40028

This was a post about our Q3A replacement texture pack for Openarena. Q3MIN uses the same texture set plus OA player and weapon models. The shots were taken using id Software's standard maps (we used them just for testing, of course we don't distribute copyrighted stuff).

Speaker

[speaker]

sorry for what things I got wrong.. =/ I've been using for like 3 days, so...

NP and thanks for the post introducing Q3MIN.

I'm honestly surprised you're a part of it..very cool!

I am surprised that you are surprised. After all, I have been fairly active making maps and textures, also did some serious engine coding before.

I like it quite a bit..I love the fast load up, since it doesn't have to read 500 plus some megs to start up.

Yes, slow loading also annoyed me in Q3A and OA is not any better in this respect.

I've been making a very large .pk3 file loaded with player models and all sorts of sounds..I had to change up the rlboom in my .pk3. I've dissected the guts to every mod for the last 8 years...I have a little bit of everything...of course giving the credit to where it's due uh hmm..all free though. Very fun

Well, if it is possible to release under the GPL any of this stuff you collected then we are very much interested. We don't have the 'Not good because it is not made by us!' syndrome.

Speaker

[v1l3]

Yeah, at some point I could send you a good sized pk3 covering alot of different things. It's at 25 megs so far so, but alot of things are already covered.. Not anytime soon though, since it takes so much time to cover everything that needs to be changed/added. =/

I was gonna ask if you could change the lightning trail to the LG trail that Runningman put into his q3plus v5 mod. It's same lightning trail from CPMA, but with more reddish color. I bet if you ask him if you can take it out, and put it in this, he'd by fine with it. I'm positive that Q3min is gonna take off good... better have a good lightning trail! =)

[Zyte]

I was just browsing your forums, and man what where you smoking when you posted this..

BTW, what is Q3A if not 'point and shoot'? I had the impression that that's exactly what you have to do in Q3 as well. I know, you have already told me about all the tricks you have to learn (strafe jump, rocket jump, whatever). Just gimmicks. They are the result of a badly designed engine and IMHO we could do without them.

Speaker

Those are the exact things which make quake unique and great my friend. Hardly gimmicks, but key elements of quake3. If it wasn't for those things i'd never would have loved q3 like i did. And still do

[speaker]

I was just browsing your forums, and man what where you smoking when you posted this..

BTW, what is Q3A if not 'point and shoot'? I had the impression that that's exactly what you have to do in Q3 as well. I know, you have already told me about all the tricks you have to learn (strafe jump, rocket jump, whatever). Just gimmicks. They are the result of a badly designed engine and IMHO we could do without them.

Speaker

Those are the exact things which make quake unique and great my friend. Hardly gimmicks, but key elements of quake3. If it wasn't for those things i'd never would have loved q3 like i did. And still do

Stopped smoking about two years ago. Anyway, everybody is entitled to express his/her opinion. The post was just that - an opinion. You either accept it or not, I don't care.

BTW, I said in my last post there that the topic was closed as far as I was concerned. What's the use of dragging the issue here? I am not going to argue about it again, neither with you, nor with anybody else.

Speaker

[Zyte]

When you express your opinion though someone is also allowed to react right?

Anyways no worries, im just surprised you put a lot of work in a game that to you has a bad engine?

Anyways still smoking here. feels good. And i'm still gonna check out q3min.

[DTS]

Stopped smoking about two years ago. Anyway, everybody is entitled to express his/her opinion. The post was just that - an opinion. You either accept it or not, I don't care.

BTW, I said in my last post there that the topic was closed as far as I was concerned. What's the use of dragging the issue here? I am not going to argue about it again, neither with you, nor with anybody else.

Speaker

You have a seriously fucked up idea of what an opinion is. An opinion is not something carved in stone, it's just what someone thinks about something, and thought can be changed and influenced in many ways. Discussion on an internet forum is one way. If you refuse to discuss with anyone even the things you are most sure of, you may never learn anything. It's called being closed-minded, and you will also fail to convince other people who are sure of an opposing view.

Closing topics because you've decided something, isn't going to help anything, it's just going to piss people off.

In short: you are missing the point of a discussion forum, it's not to say "I think this, everyone who agress say so, shut up evryone who doesn't", it's to exchange ideas and information.

You said:

We don't have the 'Not good because it is not made by us!' syndrome.

but you have this "syndrome" where any "opinion" formed by someone else is "not good" if you've already formed a differing opinion of your own.

People have "opinions" about what makes good media for Q3, which influences what they make. So in effect you lied. You might not realise it cause you lie to yourself. Closed-minded people do that cause being closed-minded is a kind of self-delusion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not angry with you, and my opinion on the subject which you closed discussion of is irrelevent, which is why I haven't stated it. That's not the issue here. The issue is your attitude towards opinion and discussion.

[speaker]

This is just the very thing I wanted to avoid. I repeat: I am not interested in discussing the merits of Q3A (or that of my attitudes or ideas) with you here. If you _really_ want to discuss this topic, then please, register on our forum and post in the original thread. I will be glad to answer. But here and now I would appreciate if you cut the sermons and concentrated on the original topic.

BTW the topic on 'q3min.org' is not closed in a strict sense (although I as admin could have closed it if I wanted). What I meant by that was that I was not interested to continue when I could clearly see that whatever I said was rejected out of hand.

Speaker

[speaker]

When you express your opinion though someone is also allowed to react right?

I did not express my opinion here. Why did you have to raise this issue here, in a topic completely unrelated? After all, my opinion has nothing to do with Q3MIN, especially because I am not the only contributor/developer.

Anyways no worries, im just surprised you put a lot of work in a game that to you has a bad engine?

Irrelevant. For the record, I said badly designed, not bad. There is a subtle difference here. Badly designed code may work fine, but when you have to change it or maintain it, you will immediately see the difference. Anyway, that's again a personal opinion I expressed in our forum and I am not interested in discussing it here.

Speaker

[Zyte]

Well yeah looking back it wasn't really relevant to post it here again. On the other hand, this is after all a quake 3 board, and q3min still has q3 in it's name. I mean, it's not like the engine is a small part of a game amirite?

And come on, strafejumping and rj-ing is fucking awesome. You know about defrag right?

Anyways as i said no worries and forget about it.

[v1l3]

I dunno what the fuck you guys are arguing about, but I started the topic because Q3min is the greatest set-up idea I've seen come out yet with the Q3 Engine. You can modify everything in the game from the ground up..it also gives life to alot of the custom maps at ..::LvL and that's pretty huge.

..so back on topic What does the "min" in Q3min stand for? Not that it's revelant, but just wondering..

[speaker]

Well yeah looking back it wasn't really relevant to post it here again. On the other hand, this is after all a quake 3 board, and q3min still has q3 in it's name. I mean, it's not like the engine is a small part of a game amirite?

Well, that discussion was bad enough on our forum and I was a bit annoyed that someone started it again here.

And come on, strafejumping and rj-ing is fucking awesome. You know about defrag right?

Yes, I know defrag although I dont play it (I like to shoot instead of jumping around ). All these tricky jumps may well be exciting, but it irritates me when other excellent games that do not have such options are dismissed by Q3A chauvinists as 'another boring FPS'. But let's not start it again, OK? Come to our forum if you wish to discuss these things with me.

Anyways as i said no worries and forget about it.

Fine by me.

Speaker

[speaker]

I dunno what the fuck you guys are arguing about, but I started the topic because Q3min is the greatest set-up idea I've seen come out yet with the Q3 Engine. You can modify everything in the game from the ground up..it also gives life to alot of the custom maps at ..::LvL and that's pretty huge.

Making custom maps available for play is one of the main goals of the Q3MIN project. But we also want to add new features. After all, if all you want to play is vanilla Q3A you can pick up a copy of the original game on Steam for about $10. So we keep on adding things like a new map rotation system for servers, custom weapon ranking, a better weapon selection scheme, etc.

..so back on topic What does the "min" in Q3min stand for? Not that it's revelant, but just wondering..

It stands for 'minimalistic', meaning that it should be a small package that has just the minimal functionality necessary for running maps and mods. No garbage, just the very essence.

Speaker

[missbehaving]

Well yeah looking back it wasn't really relevant to post it here again. On the other hand, this is after all a quake 3 board, and q3min still has q3 in it's name. I mean, it's not like the engine is a small part of a game amirite?

And come on, strafejumping and rj-ing is fucking awesome. You know about defrag right?
Anyways as i said no worries and forget about it.

You will find that alot of members/players will be using it for defrag. I used to spend ages on localhost before I realised you could play online. Before that the only other game I played was toki on the amiga

So I was well aware of fast escapes and stuff. I mostly play freezetag and I often use the team overlay because I could unfreeze team players better than I could aim

I've also seen players who could outplay most people who have been playing for years yet have no idea about strafe jumping and stuff. I can understand that these players might care less for the physics.

But as already mentioned. It's what makes the game so variable in gameplay and styles of play. So maybe you are just agreeing with each other without realising it

[SplEEb]

Speaker, you should have remade unreal tournament or something. Quite frankly, your attitude sucks. And your attitude is what just made me dismiss your efforts.
Good luck with it, I know I won't fuck with it.

[speaker]

Speaker, you should have remade unreal tournament or something. Quite frankly, your attitude sucks. And your attitude is what just made me dismiss your efforts.

You dismiss something w/o trying because you disagree with the personal opinion of one of the developers? Now IMO this is the attitude that sucks, not mine.

Good luck with it, I know I won't fuck with it.

As you wish. Does not matter to me.

Speaker

[Scourge]

Well if the attitude towards the game by one of the developers is bad then that tends to make people think that maybe their heart isn't in it and may not even be worth the time of looking at. I know it certainly made me question whether I wanted to dl it or not. If your hearts not in it, why even bother in the first place?

[speaker]

Well if the attitude towards the game by one of the developers is bad then that tends to make people think that maybe their heart isn't in it and may not even be worth the time of looking at. I know it certainly made me question whether I wanted to dl it or not. If your hearts not in it, why even bother in the first place?

I guess there is a slight misunderstanding here. FYI, I have been playing Q3A for years, created maps for it, collected resources (see e.g. my skybox collection on LvL) to make the job of other mappers easier, and coded my own Q3M source mod before starting the Q3MIN project. The assertion that I don't like Q3A is ridiculous. If I did not like it, I would not have started the Q3MIN project to begin with.

OTOH, I do hate pigheaded Q3A chauvinists who dismiss any other game (no matter how good or popular) as 'boring garbage' simply because its engine's physics is correctly coded and does not allow the tricks you can do in Q3A. Unfortunately, when I discuss Q3A with such stubborn people (I try to avoid this nowadays) sometimes I get angry and say things I don't really mean and regret later.

Speaker

[SplEEb]

I really don't think anyone on here is a q3 chauvinist. These guys play almost every game that comes out. With that said they know perfection when they see it.
I'm sayin why don't you go remake a game thats coded correctly. Its almost like your insulting id software and all its fans of thier games, me included.
pffffft!!!!

[^misantropia^]

Each to his own, I suppose. But if your project aims to remove features that have de facto become part of the Q3A gameplay experience - and perhaps even de jure, see the comment in PM_Accelerate() in game/bg_pmove.c - you shouldn't market it as 'Quake 3 Minimalistic'.