Q3min...a freeware version of Q3A

[pulchr]

OTOH, I do hate pigheaded Q3A chauvinists who dismiss any other game (no matter how good or popular) as 'boring garbage' simply because its engine's physics is correctly coded and does not allow the tricks you can do in Q3A.

I doubt that the people that replied, in the UT99 thread over at the Q3Min site, dismisses any other game as boring garbage because it's different or how it's coded. It's just that games differs in style and so do the players. I was gonna quote but it seems like the thread has been censored or something - anyway I can't find it anymore.

What upset people and led to the controversy was that Speaker said that rocket and strafe-jumping was gimmicks that we could do without. Now I don't know if he meant "we" as in we UT99 lovers or if he meant the Q3Min people.

There's a reason people still play a game this old - the gameplay is fun. It doesn't matter if stuff comes from "bad code" when it's what people love about it. Removing rocket-jumping and strafe-jumping and other things defining the Quake 3 gameplay would be like stopping DJs from scratching the turntable 'cause it wasn't meant to be treated that way.

Anyway - I hope we're enough Q3 lovers over at Q3Min to object when things like this happen again

[speaker]

This is really getting insane now.

NOBODY SAID THAT THESE 'FEATURES' WOULD BE REMOVED FROM Q3MIN!

Sorry for shouting but some people seem to be deaf. I only said that games w/o these gimmicks might be just as good or possibly better than Q3A. So stop trashing me for something that I did not do, OK?

Speaker

[^misantropia^]

Add a 'this is purely my opinion, not a project goal' disclaimer to your posts, speaker. It'll help, me thinks. =)

[speaker]

Add a 'this is purely my opinion, not a project goal' disclaimer to your posts, speaker. It'll help, me thinks. =)

You are right, maybe I should have added that. Unfortunately I assumed that people would not mistake a personal opinion for a goal. It seems that I was wrong...

Speaker

[Peenyuh]

Agoal, usually, is directed by a personal opinion. Settle down people!

[DTS]

I was gonna quote but it seems like the thread has been censored or something - anyway I can't find it anymore.

I think this is it:
http://www.q3min.org/forum/showthread.p ... 0da6d&t=68

[Zyte]

I did not intend to start a witchhunt on any person who still takes the initiative to create something possibly good out of our great q3 engine.

However i still think it's fair i posted speakers personal opinion on some aspects of the game.. I was hoping for some clarification maybe.

But since the man wishes not to discuss it any further i think we should honor this and move on to q3min.

So how small would you say this community around q3min actually is? Is it active?

[pulchr]

I was gonna quote but it seems like the thread has been censored or something - anyway I can't find it anymore.

I think this is it:
http://www.q3min.org/forum/showthread.p ... 0da6d&t=68

It's not the thread I was thinking of as I haven't replied in it. I've searched my own written posts on the forum and I can't find the relevant ones anymore.

But anyway - it doesn't matter. It's no use bickering over this as Speaker has explained what he meant and I must've misunderstood the intentions. After all it was in the "Gaming General" category and that should've raised some flags.

I'll creep back into my hole, and concentrate on my level design instead

[zanic]

Will punkbuster work with this?

[speaker]

Will punkbuster work with this?

There is no reason why it should not. Q3MIN is based on ioquake3, and I believe that the code changes we have made so far should not prevent PB from working. It has not been tested though. Why don't you try it and tell us how it works?

We plan (in the long term) to add custom cheat protection mechanisms like those in Noghost. But it will not happen tomorrow...

Speaker

[speaker]

Hi,

A new version of Q3MIN (0.7.0 stable) has been released, with bug fixes and improved sounds. For details see http://www.q3min.org/forum/showthread.php?t=106. The package can be downloaded here (size about 90 MB):

http://download.tuxfamily.org/q3min/q3m ... e-v070.zip

Speaker

[^misantropia^]

Will punkbuster work with this?

Nope, it won't. PB doesn't work with ioquake3 (and how could it? PB can only exist by the grace of a closed source) and so it won't with q3min either.

It doesn't matter, anyway. PB hasn't been updated for Q3 in like five years or so.

[Eraser]

Each to his own, I suppose. But if your project aims to remove features that have de facto become part of the Q3A gameplay experience - and perhaps even de jure, see the comment in PM_Accelerate() in game/bg_pmove.c - you shouldn't market it as 'Quake 3 Minimalistic'.

Strafe jumping and rocket jumping are indeed parts of Q3 that were put into it intentionally. Carmack initially had his doubts about it as well as it indeed was a fluke in the physics code of Quake 1 (and possible Quake 2 as well. Ramp-jumping in Q2 certainly was a "bug" in the code). With Quake 3 it was put in intentionally. I remember Carmack's .plan updates about it.

[Eraser]

speaker, I'm genuinely wondering about something.
How motivated and excited are you about this q3min project now that anyone with a decent Internet connection can play the complete Quake 3 Arena plus Team Arena packages for free online through Quake Live? Doesn't that make your project somewhat obsolete?

[Eraser]

Will punkbuster work with this?

Nope, it won't. PB doesn't work with ioquake3 (and how could it? PB can only exist by the grace of a closed source) and so it won't with q3min either.

It doesn't matter, anyway. PB hasn't been updated for Q3 in like five years or so.

And I'm sure all the cheaters moved on to other things. I guess the only ones still playing Quake 3 are the hardcore fans who really love playing the game in the way it's supposed to be played.

[speaker]

speaker, I'm genuinely wondering about something.
How motivated and excited are you about this q3min project now that anyone with a decent Internet connection can play the complete Quake 3 Arena plus Team Arena packages for free online through Quake Live? Doesn't that make your project somewhat obsolete?

Sorry for the late reply, I was quite busy adding new features to Q3MIN and I did not check this forum for a while.

About your question: QL is not completely free in the sense that it does not allow you to start an independent server, even though iirc there was some talk about the possibility of buying this privilege from id (disgusting if true). Also you cannot use the tons of fine custom maps created for the original game, and have to watch advertisements while you play the game. IMO the whole thing sucks.

Q3MIN is free, small (easy to download and install) and completely compatible with Q3A. It already has some nice features not present in either the original game or in QL, and we plan to add more (game modes like freezetag and domination, just to mention some examples). BTW many of these new features have been previously implemented in mods which again cannot be used with QL.

So I think that Q3MIN is a viable project and it will be attractive to quite a few players looking for a really free alternative.

FYI, the latest stable version of Q3MIN (0.8.1) has just been released, with PM skin support (like the one in the CPMA mod) and other nice goodies. Visit our site at the following link if you are interested:

http://q3min.org/forum/index.php

Speaker

[^misantropia^]

Speaker, I stumbled upon this thread on your forum where chicky / missbehaving mentions:

It's a pity ^misantropia^s code had issues as it would have been ideal to stick to the more uniformed values that most people know. I don't think he even specified the colors 0-7 because it was such an obvious combination.

Next time, why don't you contact me? Saves you the hassle of having to reinvent the wheel.

[Scourge]

About your question: QL is not completely free in the sense that it does not allow you to start an independent server, even though iirc there was some talk about the possibility of buying this privilege from id (disgusting if true).

Speaker

Why would they need to buy the privilege from themselves?

[speaker]

Speaker, I stumbled upon this thread on your forum where chicky / missbehaving mentions:

It's a pity ^misantropia^s code had issues as it would have been ideal to stick to the more uniformed values that most people know. I don't think he even specified the colors 0-7 because it was such an obvious combination.

Next time, why don't you contact me? Saves you the hassle of having to reinvent the wheel.

I am sorry, but there must have been a misunderstanding on behalf of missbehaving (aka chiquita). I did not say that there were issues with your patch: I just said that I could not use it because the modified code base of Q3MIN seems to be too different from the ioquake3 code base/revision you used. Also I decided that the original CPMA implementation (that you reproduced in your patch) was rather restrictive (especially in the choice of available colors), and wanted to make a more advanced PM skin system. In fact, your patch was very helpful because it has shown me how to implement such a system. I have acknowledged this in the credit list/files of the latest public release of Q3MIN.

I hope that this is sufficient to clear the misunderstandings.

Speaker

[speaker]

About your question: QL is not completely free in the sense that it does not allow you to start an independent server, even though iirc there was some talk about the possibility of buying this privilege from id (disgusting if true).

Speaker

Why would they need to buy the privilege from themselves?

Who said that? I am afraid you misinterpreted the text quoted above.

Anyway, the point is: Can you run your own QL server with custom maps from LvL? I don't think so. Therefore, you are tied to whatever id Software chooses to offer. It does not mean that it is bad, may even be great, but not free. 'X is free' implies a bit more than 'I don't have to pay for X'.

Speaker

[Scourge]

Uhh, you said that. You said they were talking about buying the privilege from id. id are the ones that put out Quake Live. I don't see how that was misinterpreted.

[speaker]

Uhh, you said that. You said they were talking about buying the privilege from id. id are the ones that put out Quake Live. I don't see how that was misinterpreted.

Sorry, maybe my sentence was not entirely clear after all. What I wanted to say was that I saw some posts talking about the possibility that people wishing to start QL servers might be able to buy the right to do so from id Software.

BTW I don't really understand the restriction. It would probably be possible for id to arrange that any profit from the in-game ads would go to them and not to the server owner. In this case the more servers there are, the better they are off.

Speaker

[Scourge]

Ah, I see. I understand now.

[AnthonyJ]

BTW I don't really understand the restriction.

I can think of several good reasons:

• Many people want to be able to run their own servers so they can use custom maps - which of course wouldn't have any adverts in. Even if id put in protection, I'm sure people would work around it so they could play their beloved hub etc (eg, place an ad in a room you cannot get to). Given the current whine, almost none of the default maps would ever get played.
• The QL server system isn't the same as q3 - they can spawn / shutdown on demand based upon player demand, and this is controlled through the backend SQL database AFAIK - which ofc you don't have access to.
• One of the goals of QL is to make it easy for everyone to just jump in and play, with known quality. Random servers run by other people gives unknown quality, and extra hassle if people figure out custom maps/mods