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Topic Starter	Topic: Re: Evil Lair's Template textures - Expanded (Template_AE)
AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-12-2009 07:19 AM                  Whee, more than 200 textures done... (BTW: The "5 gate" based on Hiptshot's design in Solar, I think he did it as least).
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fKd Immortal Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 2469	Posted: 10-12-2009 03:26 PM                  can you do 1 to 5? be good location markers sorry about being a bit quiet as of late, been side tracked into making a level for operation flashpoint 2. its interesting as one of my flatmates has it so i can play lan. fool does not play q3 because i always waste him :/ but yeah great stuff so far, can i use 200 textures? you bet i can
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-12-2009 11:21 PM                  About the numbers, hmm... no idea ... might need to find a font that actually has that style... I'm not that great at creating on-the-fly "vector" fonts. Will look into it.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-14-2009 12:25 AM                  I am sorting the gray textures to be colored via shaders into different folders: temp_ae_base (evil lair's original template textures) temp_ae_grate temp_ae_light temp_ae_floor temp_ae_pads temp_ae_pipes temp_ae_sfx temp_ae_trim temp_ae_wall Though this is practical, the paths to the textures point to 9 different subfolders. I am not completely sure this is a good thing in the textures menu of GTKradiant. This would let me separate the shaders into 9 files as well, from a code perspective this is "good", but again this will spam the shaderlist.txt with *9* entries instead of e.g. one temp_ae. Seperation would have the advantage that folks that only want to use the original "base" set of textures can do so easily, and ignore the other folders. Those folks looking for more wall or floor relates texture will find them more quickly. The downside when placing everything into one folder is the spamming of 200 textures. You'd have to wade through all of them to find what you are looking for. Any preference here, Sock?
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Pat Howard Insane Quaker Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 491	Posted: 10-14-2009 05:53 AM                  I'd rather you categorize them. Having 200 textures constantly up in your window while editing can be really overwhelming.
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sock The Illuminated Joined: 08 Sep 2000 Posts: 1085	Posted: 10-14-2009 06:48 AM                  Change the name of the texture set from 'temp_ae' to 'aeoncell', it is not really temporary anymore. You could try merging your sub folders as follows: _base = temp_ae_base (evil lair's original template textures) _floor = temp_ae_floor, temp_ae_pads _wall = temp_ae_wall, temp_ae_grate _sfx = temp_ae_sfx, temp_ae_light _trim = temp_ae_trim, temp_ae_pipes _________________ Well he was evil, but he did build alot of roads. - Gogglor My Website & Twitter
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-14-2009 07:49 AM                  Pat, noted. I agree. Sock, good idea... fewer folders are better, will merge the folders as you suggested. I had been thinking about this, but in the above case "temp" is supposed to stand for "template"... only no one will read it that way, it seems... hmmm... "aecell" would be fine and short. I am never totally certain about names, are the textures really "cellular"? I have created default shaders for all textures, now I need to double-check how Sock's "simple" colorize shaders will also work with transparency and light sources. BTW, Sock, I have separated the color of the light textures from the light textures. I'll use the "light color" as blend/glow, trying to place it "over" the generic light texture. On editor preview: Alas the editor does *not* show the recolored textures, so all of them are in drab gray. On that note, all the textures are TGA (27.7MB) of them unpacked, packed is less than about 800KB. That said I'll probably add a folder "aecell_edit" that contains *all* textures in orange, add a 2nd set of shaders that explicitly uses the orange textures in-editor. For these I'll merge the color into the light textures. As should be clear the gray textures are missing some preview quality, especially the light colors would need some form of preview in the editor. Any ideas?
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sock The Illuminated Joined: 08 Sep 2000 Posts: 1085	Posted: 10-14-2009 08:01 AM                  I would call them cellular; heavy black lines, contrasting details, bright abstract colours, feels cell shaded with soft fuzzy lighting on top! I did not realise you were naming them template, temp is really an universal short form for temporary, most disk systems have 'temp' directories with piles of temporary files waiting to be deleted. The simple recoloured shaders should work fine with blend/light glow variants. If you have problems then just post your shader, I am sure someone here will be able to help. I would only recommend you do one set of editor textures, honestly you have done enough work already. I don't think you need to do a crazy amount of editor versions, most mappers are lazy and will just use what they are given. _________________ Well he was evil, but he did build alot of roads. - Gogglor My Website & Twitter
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-14-2009 08:08 AM                  Well ... those orange textures already exist, so I might as well add them. I went the "hard way". All the textures are black with an opacity level set, I can recolor them in PS on the fly. And did so using the orange tone from the original texture set. Cell shading, or animation cells... yo... you are right, the name fits. Neat. Hope to have a "relatively" complete beta out tomorrow. Another thing: I thought it might have been better to sort out some of the more detailed textures, to create a more minimalistic set. But why bother, the mapper can easily stick to the base set, and use the "new" textures as he/she prefers. Though technically I am hoping to have created enough textures to actually texture a "real" (not only a test) map with them. Cannot wait to see a map in blue, or green Update: OK, creating a test map for all the textures, and one thing is quite clear, it is pretty unbearable to have to use gray textures in the editor all the time. The editor images will point to orange versions. In theory, folks could recolor the gray textures manually, to let them use the color the like in the editor.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-16-2009 12:41 PM                  I seem to have been able to get the much more complicated animated, transparent shaders to work with the recoloring on my first try. The lights were a bit more tricky, luckily you can test stuff like that with q3ase. The shaders are quit probably not perfect, but seems to do the job so far. I used very simple colored light "areas" (blend) for a generic lamp, thus any mapper will be able to easily add light colors of his/her own. The color of the light is defined by the "blend" texture's color. Strangely enough the coloring of all the 200 textures worked right away in-game. Well, obviously it would for the trivial textures, since Sock provided a shader for them. But it also seems to work well for those with transparency. This is the way things look in the editor. That much gray gets on my nerves. Will create a folder called aecell_edit that contains an orange texture version specifically for the editor use. And all the shaders will explicitly link to those. The gray textures will then only be used in-game. Alas recoloring the gray textures to any color you might like, e.g. to create your own editor "preview" textures, would not work via IrfanView (batch recoloring) properly. But a seasoned artist will probably figure something out.
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Pat Howard Insane Quaker Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 491	Posted: 10-16-2009 04:01 PM                  Everything is turning out awesome, AEon. Customizing textures is really starting to look appealing. Don't worry about the editor images; the yellow color is fine. If I really felt I needed to distinguish between colors I would probably just run a batch file on all the textures I'm using that pastes the word "RED" in red font on every texture's editor image or something. This is not something you need to do though. Keep up the good work, bud. -pat
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-17-2009 12:25 AM                  Thanks ... AFAICT the shaders are all done now, and seem to work. I am thinking of adding a some decals, e.g. the gate now also exists in an unnumbered version, so some numbers might be good to have, plus there is a cog somewhere that might be an interesting default pad as decal. But this would not be for the next beta, but the one after that. Maybe I'll give "rust" a try as well... might look funny to have such clean textures, blotched and rusted with decals, maybe From a template mapping point of view this may be a good thing. General question on texture folders: I noted that GTKradiant 1.2.13 displays *all* the textures, e.g. in aecell_sfx, when you pick it from the menu. You will also see all the "blend" textures that have no direct shaders attached to them, and should actually *not* be used. I would prefer them not showing up in the texture window. Would placing them in a subfolder aecell_sfx/blend help? Is this a "good" thing to do at all? I'd also like to have the aecell_edit editor preview images "hidden" in some way, so that folks do not accidentally use these, maybe put them in aecell_sfx/edit?
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-17-2009 02:58 AM                  Alas whenever you think you really have all the issues solved some ugly new ones show up. The shaders now all reference the aecell_edit folder with it's orange textures, using them for the preview in GTKradiant 1.2.13. This works just fine, plus lets you preview the light colors. The gray versions of the textures along with their shaders still use the aecell_wall, aecell_floor, ... folders. Alas a shader called temp_basetrim_128g (shown in orange in the editor's texture window, will *also* show the gray texture temp_basetrim_128g.tga, even though the shader should supersede the actual gray texture file. ... I now see twice the number of images in the texture window, and half of them, the non-shader versions in gray are superfluous. Drat! Any way to avoid this ugly issue? Seems like the editor shows all images in the aecell_base folder, no matter what. Hmmm... may need to put the orange textures in the explicit folders, and all the gray ones into aecell_edit to avoid this. The engine would then actually use the images in acecell_edit, and the explicit folders like aecell_wall would just be "dummies" for the editor.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-17-2009 09:24 AM                  Finally seeing the end of the tunnel... renaming paths etc for all the shaders (twice) was worth the work. Now you only see the shaders you should see, all the blend etc textures are "hidden", and in-game the gray textures are colored. Whee An idea that occurred to me: Would there be any interest in a version of the base textures, the originals created by evil lair, that shows the size of the texture in numbers: e.g. your standard wall texture would be 256x256 pixel, the text on the textures edge would read 128u x 128u (since by default all textures are scales down by factor of 2 (50% size)). Would give a texture set a techie look.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-17-2009 01:31 PM                  Slow weekend it seems. Experimented with recoloring the in-game gray textures: (image see next post) I the light brown tone is almost there IMO, not so sure about green and blue. I seriously wonder if one can make those colors look good. Well something for an artist
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-18-2009 04:21 AM                  AEcell - AEon's Cell Texture Pack - beta1 Details: Texture pack expands evil lair's "template" texture set by about 200 new textures. Shaders included for all textures, i.e. JP, AP, fan, grates, lights, etc. Texture set based on gray textures that can be recolored via shaders. Using orange texture set version for GTKradiant preview. Download: AEcell_texpack_beta1.zip (1.60 MB) @ hugelaser.com (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder, read the .txt file for details.) Test map: map-aecell_r05.zip (2.06 MB) @ hugelaser.com (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder.) Feedback: From my tests everything should work, but there are bound to be suggestions for improvements, especially the shaders will probably need to be optimized more, e.g.: The lighting on the grates does not look that good. The large round "window" lights (colored blend) could use some more "glow" like the other blend textures. I am still using alphaFunc GE128 most of the time, this may need to be changed. Any suggestions appreciated. Next: Looking into adding some more deco textures and also looking into creating some "nice" decals. Update: I added my test map (aecell.bsp) for download as well. This lets potential mappers better check out how the textures actually look in a map. Plus it should be easier to experiment with recoloring via shaders.
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sock The Illuminated Joined: 08 Sep 2000 Posts: 1085	Posted: 10-18-2009 05:05 AM                  Wow, they do indeed look good, congrats Aeon good texture pack _________________ Well he was evil, but he did build alot of roads. - Gogglor My Website & Twitter
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-19-2009 09:02 AM                  Tabun generously let me "trace" his textures (tx_tabgen_1 to tx_tabgen_5). I picked a few -ish ones that could look neat in a template map: Thanks... there are still a few others I'd like to add. Note the new decals... not quite sure how to best add them via shader, but they should be interesting to have. These are purely gray-scale, i.e. all of the "colors" are pure black, at various opacity levels.
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Pat Howard Insane Quaker Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 491	Posted: 10-19-2009 05:29 PM                  Once again, looks great. Not really much I can help you here with, but I will mention you should add the "cull disable" line to all your grates. Right now they are invisible if you walk behind them.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-20-2009 01:39 AM                  I normally use "cull none"... and I added some two-sided grates, _2side in the shader name. So you can choose if you have to see the other side or not. I did not do this for all grates though. Hmm... not sure it makes much sense in most cases. Maybe you could point out the grates that could use a two-sided version. I'll then add these additional shaders. Update: Speedy just got back to me about "tracing" his Andromeda texture set. It's fine with him... good news
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-23-2009 02:03 AM                  So... these could pretty much be the last textures I'll be re-creating for AEcell, the various doors from and DOOM, are based on Tabun's textures. Some of them are actually 512x512, so the preview images does not really do them justice. The "fence", light trim and the decal_spawn1 are based on evil lair's e8 texture set: I have the feeling the AEcell set is still missing some support textures, and/or variations of exiting textures, but I'd need to actually build a map from them to find out what is missing. Maybe fKd has some suggestions, since he has been using the set proficiently.
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fKd Immortal Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 2469	Posted: 10-23-2009 02:18 AM                  chuck us a d/l link and i'll see whats going on. i've been a bit on the quiet side as of late due to os upgrading... map is coming along nicely tho... but im gonna hold off showing shots etc so i can wow (with any luck) some of the ole q3 community
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-23-2009 02:35 AM                  I need to create the shaders for the new textures, hopefully I'll have beta 2 out today.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-24-2009 05:08 AM                  AEcell - AEon's Cell Texture Pack - beta2 Details: Texture pack expands evil lair's "template" texture set by about 200 new textures. Textures are based on: Q3A originals by id. A few from evil lair's E8 set. Quite a few new ones based on Tabun's tx_tabgen set (in / DOOM style). And of course from Speedy's Andromeda set. Thanks go to these authors for letting me "trace" their textures. Shaders included for all textures, i.e. JP, AP, fan, grates, lights, etc. Texture set based on gray textures that can be recolored via shaders. Aside from the weapon/item spawn pads, added several new decals. Using orange texture set version for GTKradiant preview. Download: AEcell_texpack_beta2.zip (2.48 MB) @ hugelaser.com (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder, read the .txt file for details.) AEcell Demo Map: map-aecell_r06.zip (2.91 MB) @ hugelaser.com (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder.) Feedback: From my tests everything should work, but there are bound to be suggestions for improvements, especially the shaders will probably need to be optimized more, e.g.: The lighting on the grates does not look that good. The large round "window" lights (colored blend) could use some more "glow" like the other blend textures. I am still using alphaFunc GE128 most of the time, this may need to be changed. Any suggestions appreciated. Last edited by AEon on 10-24-2009 05:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.Reason: Fixed tabgen name typo.
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Tabun Warrior Joined: 07 Aug 2009 Posts: 76	Posted: 10-24-2009 05:28 AM                  Wow, it's become a huge and beautiful set! Begs for a lot of maps to be made with them.. One side note: that should probably be "tx_tabgen" in there (not that it matters). _________________ www.tabun.nl
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Anthem Insane Quaker Joined: 20 Oct 2009 Posts: 399	Posted: 10-25-2009 12:28 PM                  I have to say... Quite the nifty texture pack. _________________ Team Event -O- Horizon NoGhost Map Making Competition 2 (June 2010)
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-25-2009 01:53 PM                  Thanks ... Presently doing a real-world test with the texture set trying to come up with a map design for it... calling the map AEmars. Will combine DOOM3 look in patches and some Q2 Strogg elements (textures mostly)... no idea how this will come out, but it's fun to start a completely new map. So far, when I was looking for a texture, I actually found one, so the set seems to be large enough. The nice thing about all this, I'll actually have the "skill" to add more textures as needed.
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Pat Howard Insane Quaker Joined: 31 Mar 2009 Posts: 491	Posted: 10-28-2009 03:09 PM                  I'm making an alpha with these textures right now for the NoGhost contest so I'll be coming back to this post periodically to jot down things I've noticed. 10.28.09 - Fence textures and other transparencies need the "surfaceparm nomarks" line. 10.29.09 - How about a simple 64x64 unit wall texture? Like the 128x128 but halved. - I think fKd said something a while back about numbered location markers (like the "5" texture.) I think you should do this too. Just change the font on all of them if you can't find a match for the "5". - "aecell_deco4"... best texture ever? Last edited by Pat Howard on 10-29-2009 08:03 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 10-29-2009 12:08 AM                  Pat, yo, thanks... that's the best feedback... based on real-world tests. I noted that some of the lights should better be using explicit color textures to light the map instead of using the "blend" ones. The round large spider lights are broken, the lightmap is not placed on them. I asked about fixing them in the AEmars thread, no feedback alas. Hope you'll experiment with a different in-game color. Would be cool what colors an artist comes up with. Obviously, in-editor the textures are still orange, but that should be OK, sort of.
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Silicone_Milk Immortal Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 2162	Posted: 11-19-2009 06:26 PM                    AEon, I mirrored the latest beta of this texture pack on Filefront. http://www.filefront.com/14957171/AEcel ... _beta2.zip also, bitchin work man. These textures are helping me get a better sense of the scale of my brushes too I'm using it in quicke3 alpha as I rework some terrible routes and rescale areas. Thank you
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 11-20-2009 12:43 AM                  Glad they help a bit. I still have the "mars base" textures I started to do that need to be finished. Will get to those once I have the next beta of AEdm7 done.
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jal_ Mercenary Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 223	Posted: 11-20-2009 02:25 AM                  Not that I want to be a PITA or anything, specially since they are very nice textures, but... if the set has replacements for all textures, doesn't it break the original purpose of being quick fillers? I mean, aren't you texturing the map twice now, first in the orange set, and then again?
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 11-20-2009 04:13 AM                  That is indeed so. But then again you are not forced to use the complete set, you can use just as many or few placeholders as you see fit. And that was one of the ideas behind the creation of the set: Add more choice, e.g. for deco textures. My "test" map AEmars that is only using this set will probably turn out to be an experimental cell-look map. To be honest, I am not so sure I'd actually use the texture set myself, when planning to use "real" textures. Too much of my mapping inspiration derives from the proper textures. But the "neat" set of weapon/item pads already are making an appearance in AEdm7, a few other AEcell decals should be also nifty to use in other maps.
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cityy surfaceparm nomarks Joined: 10 Aug 2009 Posts: 1006	Posted: 11-30-2009 09:31 AM                  During the building process of q3ct4 I noticed, that there is no wood like texture in the pack ( or I just didn't find it ). Would be a really nice additional feature. _________________ Portfolio Twitter
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AEon Boink! Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 4493	Posted: 11-30-2009 10:38 AM                  While starting to add rocks and greenery in AEdm7 I also noted that rocks, plants, and as you say wood are not part of the AEcell texture pack. And the reason for this is rather simple: Such organic material cannot really be reduced to 4 orange tones plus black, at least I don't know how. It might be be possible "fake" wood, but rock? If you know of "original" texture material that could be abstracted, don't hesitate to post it, I'll take a look as see what I can done. Just remembered the gravel in Sock's POM, the alpha channel already is a form of abstraction... i.e. black pebble outlines and the pebbles could then "manually" be colors in orange tones. At least that could work, sort of.
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