[BETA] pukka3ctf2

[sumatra]

Hey, as some of you may have considered, I'm working on a CTF map for Quake Live / Q3 for quite a long time now.
Finally I finished a playable beta version. I'm really eager for your thougts/ideas on the current state.

I changed many parts since the last alpha version. I tried to scale down the distance between the bases/flags and decrease the complexity of the connections. I removed the third tier in the mid as well.
I hope I found the right balance beetween Attack and Defense.


I'm looking forward on feedback regarding the following points:

- Layout (I dont want to change big structures, but I willingly improve small parts/areas)
- Items (The items are not decided yet, counting on competitive feedback especially by QL CTF players)
- Visuals/Theme (Everything you have to suggest to improve the overall style and making the map easier to learn)


My To-Do-List:

- Clipping
- Lighting
- Fixing/Improving Areas
- Detailing (Just a bit, to make different areas more recognizable)

Q3 Version:
http://pukkadesign.com/maps/pukka3ctf2b01-Q3.zip

Quake Live Version:
http://pukkadesign.com/maps/pukka3ctf2b01-QL.zip







Thanks for any helpful comments in advance!
-sum

[VolumetricSteve]

I did a very quick run-through of your map and it looks very ....I'm trying to find the right words....It's good, it looks fantastic really but it's lacking what you said about making the different areas look more distinguished. You might want to have certain types of areas have a more industrial look, others have a more clean look...and you could group areas any way you see fit, as long as they're really visually different. Personally, I'd have the flag areas look the same, then the space leading up to the flag areas look a certain way, then the middle..shared ground of the map look different. I'd only do it that way so you get an instant sense of where you are, and how much longer you have to go until you're back at your base with the enemy flag.

I thought the layout was a good one for CTF, if felt like a map that came right out of the ranks of the Team Arena expansion (I've been seeing a lot of this lately - it's a good thing). Weapon layout was particularly good, I never felt like I needed to hunt for ammo or spend a lot of time looking for something to shoot with. Lots of CTF maps don't take into account that foot-traffic is higher in CTF maps, so a few more guns are needed to balance that.

As for Visuals/Theme....I can't stress enough the visual grouping of places in terms of their proximity to the flags, that's about all I'd suggest.


Side note: The teleporty thingies have a really overly white texture and it looks...wrong, maybe it's intentional? Everything else has a kind of brick and concrete grittyness to it, so the portals kinda threw me off visually.


P.S. How do you go about mapping for Quake Live? I thought it didn't support custom maps?

[ShadoW_86]

Hey Sumatra. This build looks much better then previous one. I like changes in bases. First of all I like 'maz-type' ctf maps, so can't complain much about layout atm, at least until I playtest it properly. Well, maybe one small thing would be the fact that now flag area is a little too cramped now, or at least it does look so. Seems to hard to def the place.

From technical side - first of all give us proper lightning . What I don't like are those teleports in bases, why the heck they teleport you right into the wall? Don't like much sume decoration stuff, but that's prior personal taste, so won't talk about it. I like some of your textures (but can't judge them really until lighting is done). What took my attention, is that you have this dirt/ground texture on high level, and concrete on lower level. Looks kind of not right for me, who would made lower floor with concrete, and put some dirt on first first floor . But I'm pretty much nazi when it comes to visuals, so don't take my words hard .

I belive it can be very nice and funny to play map. Probably not really 'pro' but really great for some fun games. In case you want to playtest it somewhen somewhere, count me on .

[sumatra]

Hey, thanks for the feedback.

@VolumetricSteve:
I'm still working on distinction of the different key areas. I totally agree with you.
The teleporter texture will be replaced, it's just a placeholder at the moment.
Well unfortunately Quake Live doesn't support custom maps online, thats right.
But you can playtest the maps offline.

@ShadoW_86:
Thanks for the kind words. I'm really satisfied with the lighting at this point, it's beta. I'm still trying around with the sky, so I don't want to go to deep into lighting, just some spots lights and pointlights at the moment. And the most important part, you can see enough and the lighting is not too flat. :-)
Which stuff don't you like? I'm trying to keep the detaillevel low this time. I want to have a competitive ctf map with low rig requirements and few stuff that distracts the player..
I agree with floortextures, your suggestions sounds more natural. :-)

I belive it can be very nice and funny to play map. Probably not really 'pro' but really great for some fun games. In case you want to playtest it somewhen somewhere, count me on .

Well, I'm aiming for a "pro-layout", not for a fun map. So if you have any suggestions to solve your concerns, let me know.
But in fact, the map needs playtesting, before we can't really judge.
So I'm trying to find a serveradmin to put up a cpma/vq3 server soon.
I count you in!

[ShadoW_86]

PM sent.

[sumatra]

PM sent.

Response in your box.

[dichtfux]

You got a server, Shadow? Which IP/hostname? Or is he counting you in as a player?

@sumatra: You got a PM.

[neoplan]

Maybe modify the decal shader. Rocket explosions,player shadow etc look weird on them.

[sumatra]

You got a server, Shadow? Which IP/hostname? Or is he counting you in as a player?
@sumatra: You got a PM.

Thanks, gave you a response!

Maybe modify the decal shader. Rocket explosions,player shadow etc look weird on them.

On the to-do-list. Thank you!

[monaster]

One thing that bothers me a bit about that map, is that you can get from one base to the other relatively quick taking the high road (the most upper level); and compared to the 'miles' you'll have to cross on the lowest point on the map from one base to the other, the difference is even more obvious. Beside that, I quite like that map, appeals to me on a level I can not yet specify. Perhaps the premonition of something great. It's a sum map after all.
PS: Yeah I'm having my spiritual moment right now, may it never return.

[sumatra]

PS: Yeah I'm having my spiritual moment right now, may it never return.

Thanks. Yes, I have a simple motivation for that difference in distance. The upper route is the fast but risky one. Cause it's easier to defend. The lower, longer route is the more sneaky and slow 'run'. If you attack from beneath you have different ways to do that. You can RJ off the jumppad at the RL in base directly to the flag. You can take one of those 2 JPs behind the flag or you can even teleport you to that lower ledge in fron of the flag. This should be heavier to defend, but takes longer for the EFC to achieve..

If it works in a real match afterwards will turn out after some matches. But I understand your concern about that.
On the other hand most CTF maps have different styled routes, think of the water route in Q3CTF2 (Troubled Waters)...

I'm trying my best to make it a sum map!

[praetorian]

More than a few really great maps are been developed and commented on quake3world these days, and as well as those, Sumatra, this nameless map of yours has real potential for greatness!

I have not really played it, but it “feels” right, and it looks very good. If you manage to “distinguish” it, the way you are planning to, I have a feeling it will look great!
Don’t get me wrong , I know it’s always easier to criticize than to build your own map (or any peace of art, for that matter) … but, this map inspired me, as all great maps do, so I’d like to share my ides, thoughts and suggestions with you… and here it goes:

1. First of all, there is a tendency in mapping community to “raise” walls to a certain height and to “cut of” the whole map at that level… and you have done it too. It does not seem architecturally, esthetically …and in some other ways … natural. I think that you should raise “towers” and walls around different areas differently. (level Graviton - by redfella, comes to mind). It seems like an easy way to seriously distinguish some areas from others, at least for the upper route. Looking at the plan of your map, those 2 octagonal shapes, at the entrance to each base, are just calling to me to be extruded to towers … and take their rightful role as navigation “beacons”, seen from every part of the map.

2. Second of all, there is a tendency in mapping community to extremely constrict color spectrum of their textures, even to just one color on a map… and you have (almost) done it too. I completely understand the need to ease players navigation by using reds and blues (and fade other colors) to differ bases between themselves… which, in this case is done very well. But still, some wider shade of difference between four basic building materials: steel, concrete, wood and brick… wood seem more real … and more beautiful, if I might add. I wouldn’t go too far, and suggest Hipshots “Crescent” for comparison… but there is a long road of colors from your map to his.

3. Third of all, I definitely would go far and suggest considering just a little more high midday sunlight (not as much as Hipshots “Crescent”, of course ) falling thought levels of your map, emphasizing forms (from suggestion no 1. ) and adding little liveliness to upper routes and “atriums”... in contrast to looong and dark basement corridors.

4. Fourth of all, did you consider covering different running routes with different materials? Hardness to defend flag bases could be elegantly eased by hearing enemies different footstep sounds… ( I’m not really too sure about this idea?!?) … Same wood-planked floor that you used at teleporter exit, in the area behind/bellow the flag might do the magic.

5. Fifth, …maybe you should consider editing floor marks a little, making them more subtle, more “interactive” with the floor under them… transparent, or something.

6. Sixth, … Maybe it’s just me, but those 2 wooden planks “left” of the rail gun (exactly like in Hipshots “Crescent” ) seem a little out of place, in their function as well as their design. I love the concept, don’t get me wrong, but I still think they would work better in some other places… I think.

…hmmm, I think I could have some more suggestions about the gameplay… but for that I first have to play your map a little… … so that would be all for now.

And, don’t get me wrong , this already is a great map…
I can’t wait to see where it goes from here.

[DaEngineer]

I can affirm what has already be said - work on that, the people just told you what came to my mind. Especially what praetorian said about the ceiling being all at the same level... that's something you can already see in the official q3 maps like q3dm4, q3dm6 or q3tourney1; and it has been boring there already. Maybe a 3D skybox with some buildings / factories / whatever would be nice (of course not now, but later on, when the map has grown a bit).

The gameplay flows quite well after some basic finding-out-where-the-heck-I-am-now-again. Had no ammo problems so far. Only this one room with the LG above the MH seems to be a bit lost. I could almost hear it cry "duuuude, connect my to the rest of this map, I feel lonely". Of course it IS connected, as you get there by jumping down from above or stepping into the teleporter. But it feels like a flow-breaker making you run circles when you rather wanted to arrive somewhere else. I have really no idea how to change that, but this corner seems to be a dead end in some way.

Maybe you should think about this Shotgun you can't reach when you come out of your base and take the right route. I always want to jump up to it end then end up in an embarrassing faceplant trying to do so. A plank or a crate would surely like to cuddle with that piece of concrete to allow the attacker to get up there. I'm sure you wanted people not to do so, but I hate to run around such obstacles to get an item. That's just what I think - and I'm surely no professional player. Keep that in mind. I'm telling you because you stated you wanted to make a pro map. And to be honest, I've no idea what pro's like and what not.