Arizona Congresswoman shot in the head at public rally

[GONNAFISTYA]

The WBC shitting on a 9 year old girl who was shot in the head. How low can you go?

[bam!]

I think we should farm off our extremists like WBC and captured Islamic extremists to a deserted island wired to the hilt with CCTV and give them each a commando knife and 2 nades. Hilarity will ensue and every sane person in the world would have zero issue with it.

[Unisaw]

The WBC shitting on a 9 year old girl who was shot in the head. How low can you go?

We need more gun control (after we waste the WBC members).

[mjrpes]

He looks like a freaking psycho in the latest booking photo they released.

[Captain]

lol, the conservatards are frothing at the mouth again:

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/th ... 2000-2010/

[xer0s]

[GONNAFISTYA]

Why...he looks perfectly normal...if you're that insane guy from Star Trek Nemesis.

[feedback]

Why...he looks perfectly normal...if you're that insane guy from Star Trek Nemesis.

Rick Berman?

[GONNAFISTYA]

Now I remember where I saw this guy. He's the not-so-finished-fermenting clone of the bad guy from "The 6th Day"

[seremtan]

lol, the conservatards are frothing at the mouth again:

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/th ... 2000-2010/

actually the point malkin is making about liberal hypocrisy over violent imagery in politics has been made a few times by the oh-so-liberal guardian too, and it's a fair point to make given the counter-examples (obama's knife-to-a-gunfight quip, for instance)

as is the point about various parties milking this for political gain. the guy was a lone nut with - if the contents of his top ten books is to be believed - no fixed politics, or at least none that can be conveniently shoehorned into the standard lib/con culture wars narrative. the idea that the gun imagery (verbal or pictorial) somehow MADE him go and shoot all those people is ludicrous. that's on a par with saying playing doom MADE dylan klebold shoot up a school, a proposition i suspect most people on here would reject

[obsidian]

Activate PR disaster recovery NOW!

http://vimeo.com/18698532

[Ryoki]

actually the point malkin is making about liberal hypocrisy over violent imagery in politics has been made a few times by the oh-so-liberal guardian too, and it's a fair point to make given the counter-examples (obama's knife-to-a-gunfight quip, for instance)

This is true, but it's also true that the conservatives & tea partiers in the US use far more violent language and imagery in politics - and are far more consistent with it - than their counterparts.

Don't know if i agree that all this had nothing to do with the crazy loon emptying his glock into a member of congress and then into a crowd. If you have a fierce and extremely polarized political debate, nutty bastards start to do nutty things.

[seremtan]

i'm pretty suspicious of talk of 'environment' and 'atmosphere' contributing to events like this. it seems to reduce individual agency to nothing more than a garbage-in-garbage-out type of affair - which is bad if you care about freedom, which pretty much depends on some notion of individual responsibility and autonomy

if we're just automatons programmed by our environment, then there goes every freedom we enjoy (including democracy)

[GONNAFISTYA]

i'm pretty suspicious of talk of 'environment' and 'atmosphere' contributing to events like this. it seems to reduce individual agency to nothing more than a garbage-in-garbage-out type of affair

Then would you care to explain how the entire country of Germany could allow itself to be swallowed whole by enthusiastic nationalism wherein the 'environment' and 'atmosphere' contributed to seemingly "normal" individuals doing horrendous things to their fellow human beings? Could you explain how religious sermons somehow don't incite "townsfolk" to grab their torches and pitchforks and burn a supposed witch at the stake? Or how religious sermons don't incite hatred towards "teh gay"? Or perhaps how it seems that the children of KKK members/supporters seem to hold the same racist, eliminationist views as their peers? Or how the non-stop anti-muslim narrative in ALL American media since 9/11 had nothing to do with that muslim taxi driver in New York getting stabbed because he simply admitted that he was a muslim?

Would you be "pretty suspicious of talk of 'environment' and 'atmosphere' contributing to events" such as those?

Or simpler yet, feel free to debunk the saying: "No child is born a bigot. Hate is learned."

While I fully agree that personal responsibility should play a huge role in this and that societies that are "healthy" for their citizenry (of all colours and creeds) foster and encourage individual freedoms and expressions, it conveniently omits the fact that there are indeed a very large percentage of any population/demographic that is incapable of understanding that words aren't always to be taken literally and/or that extreme violence is a means to an end. Much like welfare benefits, universal healthcare and subsidizing of social programs, a society has a responsibility to protect those who can't really think for themselves by ensuring that hate speech is minimized because...as has been said a billion times since the shooting...words have meaning and consequences.

[GONNAFISTYA]

if we're just automatons programmed by our environment, then there goes every freedom we enjoy (including democracy)

But we pretty much are automatons programmed by our environment. Maybe not fully, but you can't dismiss the obvious influences of your environment. If you were born in Israel you'd probably be Jewish. If I was an outlaw biker I'd probably have tattoos, a piss-stained jacket and a Harley. If I was born into an ultra-religious family I might be - at the very least - somewhat religious.

What in the world would make someone think that everyone is an "individual" when even goth fags all look the same?

[MKJ]

nature vs nurture and all that, amirite

[Nightshade]

Has anyone actually heard any evidence that this guy was anything more than a nutter? I mean, I haven't heard anything to say that he was politically motivated, just crazy.

The political reaction to this mess has been nothing short of disgusting. Falsely emotional speeches and retarded proposals for useless gun control legislation. Fucking knee-jerking morons.

[Ryoki]

I'd say he was politically motivated in a nutty way. His youtube rants about government mind control and gold backed currency certainly point in that direction anyway.

[Ryoki]

i'm pretty suspicious of talk of 'environment' and 'atmosphere' contributing to events like this. it seems to reduce individual agency to nothing more than a garbage-in-garbage-out type of affair - which is bad if you care about freedom, which pretty much depends on some notion of individual responsibility and autonomy

if we're just automatons programmed by our environment, then there goes every freedom we enjoy (including democracy)

Wow i don't even know how to respond to this one, even after reading it a few times and scratching my head in amazement. The post appears to consist of a lot of words but extremely little substance and some pretty wild assumptions. Unless i interpret it in the same way GKY did, which i can't really because i find it very hard to believe you actually mean it that way... seeing as it's such blatant (and provable) bullshit.

You're one of the more intellectual types to post here, i r disappoint sir :\

[seremtan]

have you not been paying attention to the stuff that's come out about jared loughner since the shootings? his favourite reading material, for instance? there's even a link to an interview with one of his friends in the Zeitgeist thread, where the friend claims the guy wasn't political (i.e. in the lib/con culture war sense), and didn't listen to talk radio or watch TV. there isn't even any evidence that he was exposed to the aggressive campaign ads, or palin's infamous target ad, or any of that shit. all this talk of atmosphere/environment is just trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of the discredited claim that loughner was a tea party sock puppet

also, did you notice the words "events like this" in my post? obviously i'm not claiming environment plays no part in shaping people in general i should probably have just said "in this case", to avoid the moronics that have ensued (like Che Hamburga and his nazi germany reference. you do realise that by referencing the nazis in an internet debate you just lost, don't you, GKY?)

[GONNAFISTYA]

(like Che Hamburga and his nazi germany reference. you do realise that by referencing the nazis in an internet debate you just lost, don't you, GKY?)

"first one to mention hitler loses"

Awesome comeback. Truly.

[MKJ]

che hamburga

[seremtan]

the rest was an awesome comeback

that was just a cherry on top, which i knew you couldn't resist

[Ryoki]

Just spent a good couple of minutes writing a response poking all kinds of holes in your awesome comeback, but then i hit the wrong button and now i can't be fucking arsed to rewrite it all. I'll just go and defend some democracy in BC2 instead i think.

Goddamn you, interweb

[GONNAFISTYA]

Has anyone actually heard any evidence that this guy was anything more than a nutter? I mean, I haven't heard anything to say that he was politically motivated, just crazy.

The political reaction to this mess has been nothing short of disgusting. Falsely emotional speeches and retarded proposals for useless gun control legislation. Fucking knee-jerking morons.

It seems alot the conversation has shifted away from this one particular guy and has focused on the more general aspect in that mass shootings seem to occur often within the US and how everyone is expecting it to happen again and again.