Beta Releasing Compiling Option

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PaN61
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Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by PaN61 »

First off, I'm not sure if this is the right forum to be posting this, if yes, then it's all good, if not, then a moderator can move it to the appropriate forum.

That aside. I was just wondering what compiling option would be best for a beta release of my first map. I'm thinking it will be better to just release the map with just a test compile for beta. But I don't know whether if it should be a test compile or a final compile for a beta release.

So my question is:

Should I test compile or final compile my map for a beta release?


All help will be appreciated greatly.
Thanks in advance.

(P.S. When I finish my map, everything relating to the beta release of the map will be posted as a new thread in this Level Editing and Modeling Forum).
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Eraser
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by Eraser »

For a beta I'd compile with whatever options you'd use for your final compile.
Depends on what you define as a beta through. If your main point is to get feedback on the geometry or item placement, then extensive lighting compile options aren't needed.
If you've pretty much finished your map and want feedback on the whole package, compile with whatever you'd use for a final compile. After all, the last beta release of a map is just to iron out the last small issues.
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PaN61
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by PaN61 »

Thanks for the input Eraser. Now I have some sort of idea of what compile type to use.
And I have just checked on the test and final compiles in GTKRadiant 1.5.0. It seems that the only difference from a test to a final compile is that a final compile doesn't have the -fast parameter set to the -vis stage, and that the -bounce 8 parameter is added to the -light stage of the final compile.

I was wondering if it produces a big difference just for a beta release in all aspects (Lighting, geometry, and item placement)?
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Eraser
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by Eraser »

I get the impression that you aren't familiar with the BSP compiling process, so I'll explain a bit about those first. Sorry if I misinterpret your message and start telling things you already know, but I'll explain just to be sure.

Compiling a map consists of four stages: BSP, VIS, Light and BSPC.

Broadly speaking, the BSP stage compiles the level's geometry and entities into the final bsp file. If you only perform the BSP stage, then you're left with a playable map without lighting information (but everything is very bright instead of dark, as you might expect) or performance optimizations.

The VIS stage splits the map into different parts and determines for each part which other parts are visible, so that the game engine can draw as small a portion of the map as possible, increasing performance. It doesn't change the map visually, but does help make the map run smoother.

The Light step calculates the light maps for the map, so that you get lights and shadows in your map.

Compiling all three stages takes time. BSP is usually relatively fast while VIS and Light can take quite a bit more time. If you're building a map, you do not want to wait for this every time you want to preview what you've built in-game, so usually you'll just use the BSP stage at first. You don't need detailed lighting effects when you're still working on the geometry, texturing or item placement of your map.

When you're ready with that, you might start working on optimizing the performance of your map. Placing hint brushes or areaportals and things like that. This is something that VIS is all about, so you'll be compiling both BSP and VIS when you're working on optimizing the performance of the map.

When you work on the lighting of the map, placing light entities or tweaking light emitting shaders, you'll want to compile BSP and Light (VIS is not really important now).

The BSPC stage is done using a different compiler, bspc.exe instead of q3map2.exe. It generates an .aas file that's used by the AI bots to navigate through the map. If you want to playtest your own map against bots, or optimize the way the bots behave on your map, BSPC should be ran.

Then comes the day when you think your map is done and you want to release a beta. You should compile BSP, VIS and Light. The question now is, what options should you enable. I won't go into detail for each of these options because that's quite a lot of info. Refer to the Q3Map2 manual for some info on what the various compile options do. It's generally a good idea to include an .aas file with a beta release because it allows people to play the map against bots and get a feel for the gameplay.
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PaN61
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by PaN61 »

Thanks for that post Eraser, good read. I was already somewhat familiar with the bsp compiling process and the bspc stage. I just didn't know what would be the best compiling parameters for my map when I would want to release it as a beta.

Now that you reminded me to check the q3map2 manual, all the parameters to the 3 stages of compilation with a description of their functionality, are given within the manual. Now I will just choose the right ones which are suited to the map when I want to release it (Also a reference for future maps).

I am grateful for your help on this topic.
Thank you very much.
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obsidian
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by obsidian »

The default compile settings in GtkRadiant are pretty lacking. You will certainly want to customize your own. A generally good start for a final compile is something like this (tweak as necessary):

"C:\path\to\q3map2.exe" -meta -v "C:\path\to\mapname.map"
"C:\path\to\q3map2.exe" -vis -v "C:\path\to\mapname.map"
"C:\path\to\q3map2.exe" -light -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8 -gamma 2 -compensate 4 -dirty -v "C:\path\to\mapname.map"
"C:\path\to\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas "C:\path\to\mapname.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -reach -optimize
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by fKd »

bsp= -meta
vis= -vis
light= -light -fast -patchshadows
bspc= -forcesidesvisible -reach -optimize
lightmill
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by lightmill »

If the light takes too long just don't do full bounce, something like -bounce 1 -bouncescale 3 -fastbounce -gamma 1.5 will do for testing.
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Fjoggs
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by Fjoggs »

Gamma and compensate has rarely given me a result I've been happy with. Maybe it's my lighting style, but I just dont like the overall washed out feel it gives me.
Maybe im a moran..
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by fKd »

na man, i agree... but i might be part of the latter so yeah...
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Eraser
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by Eraser »

Why does everyone use -fast for light? In my experience, that does sacrifice quality for speed (and generally gives darker results)
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Eraser wrote:Why does everyone use -fast for light? In my experience, that does sacrifice quality for speed (and generally gives darker results)
I never noticed any significant differences between -fast compiled light and non -fast tbqh. Plus, even if there was, for testing reasons it's not practical or fun to have to wait hours without doing anything just to let something compile imho.
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Eraser
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by Eraser »

Testing of course, but for a final compile I never used -fast.
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by lightmill »

-fast culls lights, (hope I get it right) so technically its not a worse quality but different max distance for light, thus you get a darker overall look, which might be good/bad
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by obsidian »

IIRC, you get overall darker lightmaps because it culls light volumes after a wide radius. This mostly affects radiosity bounces so it doesn't continue to trace rays that vector out into empty spaces. It's easy enough just to increase light brightness values to compensate. There should be a negligible affect on quality for most maps except those that are especially dark and relying on radiosity for illumination.
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PaN61
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by PaN61 »

I have just planned out a Compile Settings option that I could use to compile my map. I used the q3map2 manual and this thread for help on planning out a compile settings option.

My first planned out compile setting is this:

Code: Select all

BSP -meta
-vis -saveprt
-light -dark -dirty -patchshadows -super 2 -filter -fastbounce -bounce 3
I haven't yet tested this out. I was wondering if this would be a good compile setting option for me to use in compiling maps. If I could improve on something within the setting please do post a reply. Also, in this setting, would I need to do -fastbounce for -bounce 3? Does it have a noticeable effect on the -bounce 3 lightmap radiosity if I introduce -fastbounce in the setting as it's just calculating the -bounce 3 parameter more rapidly?

EDIT: I noticed that Obsidian used the -v parameter in all 3 stages in his/her example above. What does the -v parameter do exactly?

All help will be appreciated greatly.
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by fKd »

-v gives you more information in your log files on whats happening during the compile. it does not do anything really. also, look up q3map2toolz.
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PaN61
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by PaN61 »

Thank you fkd. I did have a look at q3map2toolz just then. It has all the parameters for all 3 stages of compiling. I guess the only thing now is to test out different compile settings until it suits the map.

I would like to thank everyone for their help on this topic, my map is almost ready for beta testing and should be up for beta testing soon in this forum. With school around the corner, I can't guarantee that I will finish the map soon, but it will eventually be finished sometime in the near future.
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obsidian
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Re: Beta Releasing Compiling Option

Post by obsidian »

-super is obsolete. Use -samples instead (much faster/better).


Also:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Q3Map2
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