Remember when Doom4 was cancelled but wasnt?

[MKJ]

It was. And then rebooted.

We’ve heard a great deal more about what’s happened at Id over the past few years, and bits and pieces about what’s happening now. Today we can share it all.

One sequence was described to me as “the obligatory vehicle scene” in which players would take the gunner’s seat of a car and shoot demons as the computer drove. If you think that sounds rather generic, you’re not alone.

http://kotaku.com/five-years-and-nothin ... -468097062

so yea. it's still coming. those leaked screenshots were before the reboot (or, refactor?) tho. So no guarentee it'll be anything like that.

[obsidian]

They need to replace Tim Willits as creative director. He's a level designer back in the Doom days but he's terribly outdated when it comes to making modern games, and as a creative director he's out of touch.

they’ve described a studio plagued by mismanagement and lack of communication that has frustrated staff both at Id and Id’s parent company, ZeniMax.... All of my sources described Id as a company full of talent but lacking direction. Politics and mismanagement at the top of the studio had trickled down and negatively impacted all of their projects

At least the leaked shots are dead, because they looked pretty shit. I feel as if id Software made some rather questionable decisions in the past, skipping on their core strengths.

I don't understand id Software's decision to limit licensing of their engines after id Tech 3. It was a boatload of basically free money being tossed at them by people who wanted to license id Tech, but instead they decided to keep their engine proprietary and very specialized for each of their projects. Each id Tech engine is way ahead of it's time, yet they've narrowed down on engine development. If they kept up the pace and devoted more development time on it, they could easily surpass UE and CryEngine.

I don't get why instead of large sprawling labyrinth maps full of exploration (i.e. early Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake games), they've now narrowed things down to terribly linear gameplay (Doom 3 and onwards). Part of the fun of many early id Software games was the exploration, being completely lost or going the wrong way was okay, because much of the game was about trying to navigate your way around the map. Trying to find a way to unlock that door, or finding a key but then trying to find the door, were obstacles to completing the map. It meant you had to double back and try that other corridor you didn't yet explore, or running into a bunch of monsters and having to retreat to find that ammo and health pile some way back. But they've lost something when you know that you never have to turn back, that you can't possibly be going the wrong way, that you don't have to worry about health because you can just duck behind a crate for a few seconds.

Blarg!

[SoM]

well said

[Eraser]

Gives a whole new array of possibilities for the "Doom was cancelled" joke.

[Don Carlos]

So basically what we can read into this is that the old school doom is dead and we are in for a wannabe bombastic approach to a much loved game that was, as Carmack is quoted as saying, is about nothing more than demons and shotguns. I still think that despite the CODs and Battlefields of the world, if they can get the movement and feel of the game down then this could still work well in todays market.

There is room for a “mindless” shooter that uses levels instead of one big map. There is still room for unexplainable health packs and rocket launchers hidden behind secret doors. There is still room for far too many enemies on screen at once. And there is still want for this.

I might send id a very long winded email detailing what they need to do to sort out there issues and copy the CEO of Zenimax in just so he knows people care.

[losCHUNK]

I feel like I'm getting touched up by postman Pat

[obsidian]

So basically what we can read into this is that the old school doom is dead and we are in for a wannabe bombastic approach to a much loved game that was, as Carmack is quoted as saying, is about nothing more than demons and shotguns.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Carmack was reported to have said something along the lines of, "Doom means two things: demons and shotguns.", meaning that the new Doom should reflect the old Doom of big shotguns and lots of demons, which is what everyone wants from a Doom game. I have a lot of respect for Carmack, he does understand what makes a game fun as evident in his keynotes or other talks. Low latency, fast pace, twitch action FPS PC games. It's just that he is rather adverse to taking on creative responsibilities and instead hands it all off to a bunch of morons who instead do generic linear storyline driven garbage.

I also disagree with what you're saying about labeling the old-school id games as mindless shooters... In reality, it's the modern CoD type games that are as mindless as you get, linear campaigns, boring planar level designs, zero challenge because you can duck behind a crate. The old id games were anything but mindless, they lacked plot and story, but they were heavy on gameplay that required a certain level of thinking. You had to navigate a 3D labyrinth map, recognize landmarks, understand relative distances between sections of the map, ration health and ammo pickups, discover weaknesses for enemies and strengths of weapons, etc.

Though there was a certain satisfaction in exploding the guts of hordes of monsters, the gameplay was hardly mindless and that's where the fun and challenge was in the old id games. They were brutally hard if you didn't think on your toes.

I might send id a very long winded email detailing what they need to do to sort out there issues and copy the CEO of Zenimax in just so he knows people care.

Good luck with that. Maybe afterwards, you can give your cane a good shaking.

[Eraser]

So basically what we can read into this is that the old school doom is dead and we are in for a wannabe bombastic approach to a much loved game that was, as Carmack is quoted as saying, is about nothing more than demons and shotguns. I still think that despite the CODs and Battlefields of the world, if they can get the movement and feel of the game down then this could still work well in todays market.

There is room for a “mindless” shooter that uses levels instead of one big map. There is still room for unexplainable health packs and rocket launchers hidden behind secret doors. There is still room for far too many enemies on screen at once. And there is still want for this.

I might send id a very long winded email detailing what they need to do to sort out there issues and copy the CEO of Zenimax in just so he knows people care.

You got it backwards. One of the issues id management had with the original Doom 4 setup was that it was too cinematic, too CoD/Battlefield-ish. Carmack wants the game to be about shotguns and demos, just like the original game.

[GONNAFISTYA]

So basically what we can read into this is that the old school doom is dead and we are in for a wannabe bombastic approach to a much loved game that was, as Carmack is quoted as saying, is about nothing more than demons and shotguns. I still think that despite the CODs and Battlefields of the world, if they can get the movement and feel of the game down then this could still work well in todays market.

I doubt very highly such a game would ever be green-lit anymore unless id or someone else was willing to take a massive loss in sales numbers.

There is simply no way to play a shooter at Doom speeds and intensity using a fucking XBox controller. Seriously...just imagine playing it in your mind's eye with a controller and I dare you to tell me that even then it didn't suck.

[obsidian]

I played the original Doom with nothing more than a keyboard. Just sayin'.

[vesp]

I played the original Doom with nothing more than a keyboard. Just sayin'.

Didn't original Doom basically ignore Z-axis in terms of shooting though? Also no jumping

[Don Carlos]

So basically what we can read into this is that the old school doom is dead and we are in for a wannabe bombastic approach to a much loved game that was, as Carmack is quoted as saying, is about nothing more than demons and shotguns.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Carmack was reported to have said something along the lines of, "Doom means two things: demons and shotguns.", meaning that the new Doom should reflect the old Doom of big shotguns and lots of demons, which is what everyone wants from a Doom game. I have a lot of respect for Carmack, he does understand what makes a game fun as evident in his keynotes or other talks. Low latency, fast pace, twitch action FPS PC games. It's just that he is rather adverse to taking on creative responsibilities and instead hands it all off to a bunch of morons who instead do generic linear storyline driven garbage.

I also disagree with what you're saying about labeling the old-school id games as mindless shooters... In reality, it's the modern CoD type games that are as mindless as you get, linear campaigns, boring planar level designs, zero challenge because you can duck behind a crate. The old id games were anything but mindless, they lacked plot and story, but they were heavy on gameplay that required a certain level of thinking. You had to navigate a 3D labyrinth map, recognize landmarks, understand relative distances between sections of the map, ration health and ammo pickups, discover weaknesses for enemies and strengths of weapons, etc.

Though there was a certain satisfaction in exploding the guts of hordes of monsters, the gameplay was hardly mindless and that's where the fun and challenge was in the old id games. They were brutally hard if you didn't think on your toes.

I might send id a very long winded email detailing what they need to do to sort out there issues and copy the CEO of Zenimax in just so he knows people care.

Good luck with that. Maybe afterwards, you can give your cane a good shaking.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. Carmack has said that but I don't know how much of it will trickle through to the actual game. You are right, the new games are "mindless" in one way, but they have a plot for the most part and objectives that are not "pick up key and go to door". Doom was more about shooting and they keys etc were something to slow you down.

They'd be better off sitting the team down and getting them to play Doom 2 for days on end, then Serious Sam and then getting them to start bouncing ideas around.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I played the original Doom with nothing more than a keyboard. Just sayin'.

So did I...but we both know that keyboard inputs are way faster and more....uhm...pronounced in how they affect avatar movement/looking around.

Meh...I guess I just hate controllers when it comes to shooters.

[MKJ]

Mouse control was terrible in Doom, you were really better off using keyboard only. It also taught you to circle strafe, oldskool style.
And that skill is easily translated to current controller layouts.
Disclaimer : I beat both dooms on ultra violence, plus both serious Sams on serious using controllers.


None of that quick save after every kill bullshit either. Yknow, the noob strategy so many players use these days.

[Transient]

I might send id a very long winded email detailing what they need to do to sort out there issues and copy the CEO of Zenimax in just so he knows people care.

Alternatively you could just link them to this thread and let them know their original fanbase is not pleased. All 11 of us.

[Captain]

Don't. Fuck. This. Up.

[U4EA]

You guys are not nearly cynical or bitter enough. They will fuck this up, make no mistake.

[Captain]

Well duh, but it's still nice to pretend they won't

[Tsakali]

I'd prolly still try to check it out...after all it's id tech! Rage was a pleasing experience, even just as an interactive technology demo.

I would actually stop and take screenshots in random places because the scenery and atmosphere where superb! it felt like I was walking around inside a work of art.

and it was not necessarily the raw ability of the rendering engine that was impressive, rather the talented use of the tools available to create amazing surroundings that had an impact on the player.

I felt cheated in the sense that the world they created deserved more! more gameplay depth, more world interaction...more elements...just more!

[GONNAFISTYA]

I felt cheated in the sense that the world they created deserved more! more gameplay depth, more world interaction...more elements...just more!

That's why it sucked.

[LawL]

I don't care, I'm too mature to play video games.

[seremtan]

Doom blah blah tech demo blah blah shiny shiny blah blah monster closets blah blah Mars blah Big Fucking Gun blah blah gigatextures blah blah blah herp le derp blah

ffs

[SoM]

I don't care, I'm too mature to play video games.

yet you post on a video game forum

[Don Carlos]

Doom blah blah tech demo blah blah shiny shiny blah blah monster closets blah blah Mars blah Big Fucking Gun blah blah gigatextures blah blah blah herp le derp blah

ffs

[scared?]

I don't care, I'm too mature to play video games.

yet you post on a video game forum

Pathetic on so many levels...I feel sorry for the moron...