Oliver Stones untold history of the United States

[Don Carlos]

Surprised there isn't a thread about this amazing series already. Any of you been watching it?

http://www.sho.com/sho/oliver-stones-un ... tates/home

There have been some scary people in charge of the good ol' U S of A. Hoover being the scariest in my eyes. Never actually in power, but he was a puppet master for sure.
Ike...aka Eisenhower was a fucking nut job in certain respects and almost destroyed the world. Got the JFK one to watch next

[GONNAFISTYA]

Isn't it like, treason, to watch that? Or sumthin...

Why do you hate America?

[losCHUNK]

Who doesn't ?

[ALMighty]

Watched all but the last episode, liked it a lot.

...oh yeah, death to america.

[Don Carlos]

I don't hate America, it's just nice to see that someone knows there country have done some bad shit and have repeatedly done the sane thing for oil etc. they have fucked over countries for short term gain and wonder why those countries now hate them.

I might post something a bit more lengthy later on if I can be bothered

[Deathshroud]

I wonder how it compares to A People's History of the United States? I'm willing to bet Stone isn't covering any new material, but rather, presenting it in some dramatically compelling way. In other words, there is probably nothing new to see here.

[scared?]

I wonder how it compares to A People's History of the United States? I'm willing to bet Stone isn't covering any new material, but rather, presenting it in some dramatically compelling way. In other words, there is probably nothing new to see here.

most morons wont read that book so its new to them...

[Don Carlos]

I wonder how it compares to A People's History of the United States? I'm willing to bet Stone isn't covering any new material, but rather, presenting it in some dramatically compelling way. In other words, there is probably nothing new to see here.

There is nothing dramatic about it at all; it's just told straight.

Not read the book so can't comment on new ground but I doubt it is new. It's just the facade of self righteousness being stripped from American history one event at a time.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I wonder how it compares to A People's History of the United States? I'm willing to bet Stone isn't covering any new material, but rather, presenting it in some dramatically compelling way.

Then you'd be completely wrong.

[GONNAFISTYA]

It's just the facade of self righteousness being stripped from American history one event at a time.

Correct.

It's simply the history that today's Americans refuse to teach their kids, favoring the narrative that they live in the country of "the good guys". Anything that soils that narrative is omitted from teaching in American classrooms.

For example, the most obvious "untrue" thing that is taught to American children is that "America saved the world in WWII". They didn't. If there's one country that did more than any other to stop Hitler it was Russia. But since that'll never be taught in American History classes, this series was created.

[scared?]

All countries sanitize their history...it's not an American thang dipshit...

[losCHUNK]

Not really, not to the extent of America anyway. We've always harassed or let it be known if our government make the wrong decisions, from Churchill to Blair. If anything history reveals the truth even when government and media are trying to portray them in a brighter light.

[seremtan]

^ incorrect

British self-criticism at the height of the Empire was nonexistent. American self-criticism today is a million miles ahead

[scared?]

Not really, not to the extent of America anyway. We've always harassed or let it be known if our government make the wrong decisions, from Churchill to Blair. If anything history reveals the truth even when government and media are trying to portray them in a brighter light.

Fucking weirdo...

[Don Carlos]

^ incorrect

British self-criticism at the height of the Empire was nonexistent. American self-criticism today is a million miles ahead

Yeah agreed

[losCHUNK]

^ incorrect

British self-criticism at the height of the Empire was nonexistent. American self-criticism today is a million miles ahead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... ngdom#1910

VS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fe ... ted_States

I think they have the legs on us :]

[U4EA]

British self-criticism at the height of the Empire was nonexistent.

Honest question: is British self-criticism today any better than it was then?

[losCHUNK]

Well our MPs can't get away with claiming expenses anymore.

We don't even have the chance to drone a paki . I think he's on about a time before America existed when everyone was fighting for FREEEEDOM.

It took the yanks to glorify William Wallace too, everyone knows he was no saint and shadows in comparison to King Rob, the saviour of Scottish independence known to have massacred a bunch of Irish because he felt a bit hungry. WWI we've made no secret about our dirty tactics of getting America involved or the Lusitania. Churchill in the 2nd World War when destroying the French fleet, the 'naughty' document or his imperial values, Dresden or our willingness to leave Poland to the Soviets and his actions in starving India. Thatcher had a party when she died ffs and Blair handed the Tories the keys to government cos of his role in Iraq.

Switch to America whom claim to be world war champions and do you all think Abe freed the slaves cos he was a good guy ?, it was a struggle to find out that the Soviets actually managed to scare the Japs a lot more than any nuke did, JFK was a hero, Marilyn Monroe was a virgin and still find it a difficult to choose between guy who wouldn't mind blowing everyone up or the guy who wouldn't mind blowing some people up. They make laws or pass bills through what can be considered bribes n all with 4 guys carved into the side of a mountain to be held as a symbol of America, those 4 guys being responsible for the expansion of America in a rather imperialistic way.

Britain being better than America at spin ? , please, they're on a completely different level to us. How else could you align yourself with Israel ?

[Underpants?]

did you guys know that Lincoln had 1 year of formal schooling

[Ryoki]

For example, the most obvious "untrue" thing that is taught to American children is that "America saved the world in WWII". They didn't. If there's one country that did more than any other to stop Hitler it was Russia. But since that'll never be taught in American History classes, this series was created.

Actually, most historians agree that without the massive lend lease program that saw the US providing the ruskies with a steady flow of desperately needed trucks, ammo and food, the Soviet Union would likely have collapsed early in the war. For obvious reasons neither side gave much publicity to this fact, but it played a huge role especially in the beginning of operation Barbarossa. But yeah, stuff like Overlord and the invasion of Italy were but tiny sidestages compared to the terrifying scale of operations on the Eastern Front.

America saved the world is a problematic statement indeed, but it can be reasonably defended up to a point.

[scared?]

Americans didn't contribute much of anytbi g to Russia until 1943...the British helped more in late 1941-1942... So as usual...ryoki is a moron...

[losCHUNK]

That's kinda true but seeing as we were sucking our supplies through America it's help via proxy innit ?. Those supplies were meant to of helped quite a bit n all, to the point where Hitler was targeting Russian convoys to reduce their effectiveness resulting in that 1 convoy getting completely shattered and stopped us sending supplies until 1943, I think ?. It might have been something to do with Britain having plenty of experience in running convoys during the early part of the war n all.

At the very most America shortened the war though. Hitler become a liability and that was Germanys problem, he needed to invade Russia for oil and seeing as our gameplan was a war of attrition it was a fucking good plan in forcing your enemies hand with our navy making sure of it. Churchills biggest fear was the Germans gaining control of the seas with the U-boats, cutting us from our territories in Africa for oil or India for food.

I've always said that if you remove any 1 country then the war would be completely different and opens the door to Hitler bargaining for peace terms. Even Russia with all our help still had tanks on the outskirts of Moscow and 2 divisions in Stalingrad not far from those all important oil fields. At this point Hitler still could have recoignised the insignificant importance of Stalingrad and sent those divisions to find some black gold instead.

[scared?]

americas impact was minimal in comparison to the soviet union...

[losCHUNK]

You only have to look at the loss of life to work that out =/. Stalin was begging for a 2nd front though and a lot of German divisions were tied up in France, it wouldn't be hard to believe that with those divisions in France he might have captured atleast 2 of the 3 points (Moscow/Stalingrad - Oilfields) before winter. Russia would've been fucked along with us.

[scared?]

Yeah 80% German soldiers deaths were scored by soviets...they would have won without any help...