GtkRadiant and QL [ How to make a window? ]

[obsidian]

First of all, it's not a problem of the engine per se. Newer engines can make use of newer GPU hardware and software architecture that simply weren't available at the time when Q3 was released. It's like comparing a jet engine to a propeller, you can ram in as much power as you can into a propeller engine and spin the blades 10x faster than normal, but it'll never be as fast as a jet engine simply because the jet engine doesn't just push the air, it compresses and heats it for thrust. It's a completely different paradigm shift with totally different mechanics.

Secondly, it's not about the number of tris that slows rain effects down, it's the overdraw. Q3 can handle the polygons just fine, but once you do more than a dozen rendering passes to the pixel buffer, it starts to choke even on modern GPUs. Overdraw in Q3 doesn't scale as well as polycounts.

(BTW, by "overdraw" in this case I mean how a texture that is transparent has to be calculated for each layer and each pixel behind it. So 4 layers of rain would require 4 rendering passes of rain, plus whatever is behind it. These add up exponentially and the GPU has to repeat the process for every single pixel.)

[D-Meat]

Hehe sorry, and thanks for the explanations !

[KillerFox]

Hello all again,
I have difficulty with a new strange problem a little error. It's about sound. Added sound does not start.
I created in wolfcamql9.11/baseq3 a folder called sound and inside this folder i created a folder with name of my map - for example mymap3.
Here I added a sound file called ambient-wind.wav downloaded from freesound.org - http://www.freesound.org/people/DasDeer/sounds/161812/
Then I added to my map target target_speaker
Here's a screenshot:



Why I can't hear this sound in the game?
By the way, I tried with other sounds, but nothing ...

[Eraser]

Make sure the sound file is an 8-bit, 22KHz, mono PCM encoded wav file.

[CZghost]

Make sure the sound file is an 8-bit, 22KHz, mono PCM encoded wav file.

I'm pretty sure the problem is the sound is in WAV format. If it was OGG (as all sounds in QL are OGGs), then he would hear that sound without a problem... Keep it 22 kHz mono (stereo for music) anyway...

[Bliccer]

Everything about sound:
http://de.ws.q3df.org/level_design/sound_intro/
[tutorial continues on the left side]

@czghost: for q3 you must have *.wavs. Other file formats are not supported.

[Eraser]

That's true for Q3, but CZghost says Quake Lives uses ogg. The link you provided mentions the audio files in Q3 should be 16-bit though, not 8-bit so I was wrong there.

[CZghost]

@Bliccer:
I'm sure he tries to make a map with sounds for Quake Live (WolfCam is only Quake Live offline used to make movies from demos), in Quake Live WAV files just don't work, you must use OGG vorbis format. The samplerate and channel type would be the same (22 kHz mono for sound effects placed anywhere in map, same samplerate stereo for music tracks)...

If he tries to make regular Quake 3 map, not for QL, then the only format is regular WAV...

[KillerFox]

I tried what you said me and it does not work.
I converted wav file in ogg file.

Here's are some screenshots:



ogg's Settings:



Since has not worked, I tried with wav format.

wav's Settings:



Any other ideas?

CZghost - By the way, Maybe she - I'm KillerFox from QuakeLive - http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/KillerFox

[cityy]

Have you checked the console for error messages?

[themuffinman]

Convert the wavs using free:ac. If i remember correctly, it needs to be set somewhere around 45kbps ABR (check the encoder settings).

[KillerFox]

themuffinman Thanks! - The sound now works using free:ac - wav works fine, ogg not working.

[CZghost]

Strange is ID software uses OGG vorbis in Quake Live packs, back-support for WAV files is limited, but in source map files you can find the WAV variant of the name, but used format is OGG.

I'm not sure GTK Radiant supports OGG, but it's good to have two versions for your map: testing version with both OGG and WAV and release version with only OGG. WolfCam doesn't support OGG files? O.o That's strange, it's just an edition of Quake Live engine for offline use with special tools to creating nice fragmovies. Looks like there's something wrong.

As to the conversion: I always use Audacity as there are some basic editing options to go around and fit the sound to your needs...

[obsidian]

Just as shaders will always look for .tga files first and then fall back to .jpg, I believe QL looks for .ogg first and falls back to .wav.



Can anyone else confirm that you can't add .ogg files into GtkRadiant? It may be an issue that needs to be fixed as QL support is still rather new.

[themuffinman]

Fox, well as long as it works then hey why not, but OGG is still a superior format over WAV.

Are you sure you used the program correctly? Go Options >> General Settings >> Encoder >> Ogg Vorbis Encoder v1.2.0, then click config encoder and set ABR and 45kbps.

[Eraser]

Can anyone else confirm that you can't add .ogg files into GtkRadiant? It may be an issue that needs to be fixed as QL support is still rather new.

What do you mean "add"? It's a simple textual reference to a sound file...? (the "noise" key on target_speaker I mean)

[obsidian]

I'm concerned that the file browser dialog may only let you choose a file with a .wav extension.

[Despair]

It does seem to only let you choose .wav files if you use the file browser dialog. I never noticed before when converting maps to ql because i would just replace the files rather than edit the .map and recompile.

[KillerFox]

themuffinman - The sound ogg can be listen now with ABR and 45kbps.
With wolfcamql any type of sound cannot be heard ( neither wav or ogg )
But, I packed my map into a PK3 file with folders, sounds and textures and I tested my map into QuakeLive and the sound in format ogg can be listen.
And another thing, I needed to delete a channel to make a mono file using free app Audacity.
I confirm this: file browser dialog may only let you choose a file with a .wav extension. I had to write manually filename.ogg
I apologize that I bothered you with these weird problems. Some procedures are too complicated. Finally, All's Well That Ends Well!

[CZghost]

@KillerFox: No need to delete a channel for conversion of stereo to mono, Audacity 2 has built in function for mixing both channels of stereo sound to one mono channel, so you can keep most of the quality, only the effect will miss, but it's the price of using sound in such things as Quake maps...
Also, you can safely write the extension for wav, engine will look for both formats and play the included ogg file. I noticed this when I was exploring maps from Quake Live in Radiant. Looked to one target_speaker's settings and saw wav format variant. Looks like ID Software boyz were too lazy for repairing format issues or Quake Live BETA still supported WAV files as alternative format...

I'm surprised wolfcam has discarded both formats... What about default sounds packed in pakxx.pk3? (xx = 2-numeral number ranged from 00 to 50 usualy) Do you hear firing rocket or slugs for example?

[KillerFox]

CZghost - Recently i discovered into Audacity: Tracks Stereo Track to Mono then I convert this wav to ogg with fre:ac
About wolfcam: All sounds are heard, for example, QuakeLive maps.
Even if I tried to load the map from PK3, no sound from target_speaker, but into QuakeLive sound works.

[CZghost]

@KillerFox: About Audacity → It supports also OGG files, no need to use external conversion tool, just export the sound twice (one for WAV 16bit 22kHz PCM and the second for OGG 45kbps 22kHz ABR). Of course, I always use Audacity for conversion as sometimes it's important to increase or decrease overall volume, or equalize the sound for examples...

[KillerFox]

CZghost - I own Audacity 2.0.3 and there is no option 45kbps 22kHz ABR.

Here's a screenshot:

[CZghost]

Maybe it's an issue it may be reported in Audacity forums...