[ALPHA] p61dm1a3 "eNautica"

[PaN61]

eNautica (ALPHA 3):

Screenshots:
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The start of a FFA, TDM and Tourney map that I have been working on recently.
Just a few changes here and there and a small layout change in the Plasma Gun room. Have also added all the items needed such as Armor, Health and Ammo so feedback on the itemplacement would be great.


Download Alpha 3 (~0.5MB):

.pk3: eNautica.pk3

Will be looking forward to hearing from you all.

[obsidian]

A very quick visual inspection running around the map brought up a few concerns...

You have very long lines of sight, from a few spots you can almost see the entire map (RL spot, for example). This will probably affect performance once you start detailing and also affects gameplay since you can camp those positions and know where your opponent is heading. RG will be overpowered since you can hit right across the map. You may want to add some extra corridors or bends in the map to help with this. You certainly have the space, a number of rooms are actually quite large and empty so you should be able to do this without moving things around too much. Doorways are massive, scaling them down might help as well.

Perhaps try experimenting with increasing the z-height of the map? Maybe it has to do with the large horizontal scale, but the map feels very flat. I think increased height can help with mixing things up a bit.

I'd put some more thought on jump pad placement. The far JP in the first screenshot is pretty pointless, it bounces you up such a small distance. Replace it with stairs or a crate. The others (particularly the ones in the last 2 screenshots) are kind of in the way if you want to walk around them. Recess them into the walls so players don't end up walking into them.

I didn't really play it enough to comment on item placement, I'm hesitant about the quad. I think you need to fix the line of sight and scale issues before really commenting on items. Overall, looks promising but I think you need to rethink a few of the issues.

[fKd]

hey, i like the scale and the fighting areas, but i do kinda agree with obs about blocking out some of the long view distances. doors might be a good option?

here are a few idea (sorry, only got paint on my work comp )

[lvlshot]http://imageshack.us/a/img89/104/hw5k.jpg/[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://imageshack.us/a/img404/9329/giyx.jpg/[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://imageshack.us/a/img7/74/y7n7.jpg/[/lvlshot]

also, please include bot support so that it shows where they are hanging around and how they move about.

over all though, you are off to a solid start. looking forward to your next update

[PaN61]

You have very long lines of sight, from a few spots you can almost see the entire map (RL spot, for example). This will probably affect performance once you start detailing and also affects gameplay since you can camp those positions and know where your opponent is heading. RG will be overpowered since you can hit right across the map. You may want to add some extra corridors or bends in the map to help with this. You certainly have the space, a number of rooms are actually quite large and empty so you should be able to do this without moving things around too much. Doorways are massive, scaling them down might help as well.

Ahh yes, I'm planning to be adding doors to the map but haven't decided to put them in at this stage. This would hopefully minimize the Railgun domination aspect. I can scale a few rooms down a bit like the ones on the perimeter, although some rooms like the Quad room would be a hassle to do so. Doorways can be scaled down although they will be a select few due to the addition of actual doors.

Perhaps try experimenting with increasing the z-height of the map? Maybe it has to do with the large horizontal scale, but the map feels very flat. I think increased height can help with mixing things up a bit.

I will see what I can do here. It is an alpha for this very purpose. What I'm afraid of is if I do change the z-height to a larger extent, that I will need to change the majority of the layout to accommodate this change.

I'd put some more thought on jump pad placement. The far JP in the first screenshot is pretty pointless, it bounces you up such a small distance. Replace it with stairs or a crate. The others (particularly the ones in the last 2 screenshots) are kind of in the way if you want to walk around them. Recess them into the walls so players don't end up walking into them.

Just be aware that I have put the jumpads and items in the rough locations that they will be positioned in the first beta. They will be placed more into the wall for design purposes when things are solid in the Alpha stages. I was thinking of putting crates to get accessibility to the higher floor in the first screenshot, best to test both ways out I guess.


Now onto your comments, fkd:

First Screenshot: I was planning to put crates in that very exact location that you specified. There will be a few other areas where I will be placing crates as well which will be viewable in the next alpha.

Second Screenshot: I was planning ahead with that part of the wall being connected to the "invisible wall" at the moment along the edge of the top floor.

Third Screenshot: I guess I can add an obstruction there, however I was planning to put doors in the entrances in that screenshot. Will see if I can add both to the mix.

also, please include bot support so that it shows where they are hanging around and how they move about.

Alright, will do in the next alpha.

Oh and one more thing, I do have a bit of trouble with estimating the scale of the map. This is because usually when I ran through it I kept on thinking it might be a bit on the small side when also taking into consideration the detail that will be added in beta.

Thanks for all the criticism so far, it is appreciated very much.

[PaN61]

ALPHA 2 Released

Alpha 2 has been released with new additions and fixes!~ (See OP). I have also included .aas support.


I had a think about increasing z-height but I can't seem to think where I could increase it without it affecting this current layout. If anyone has any ideas on this, I would gladly like to hear it.

I also got a question about the doors. It seems that only one side of the door moves when you move near it but the other side doesn't move if you are on the other side of the doorway. I was just wondering if any of you know how to get both sides of the door to open at the same time no matter how near you are to do door (EG. to the left or to the right of the doorway).


Other than that, feedback on the current version will be greatly appreciated.

[obsidian]

See your Entity Inspector, it has details about all the key/value pairs available for any entity.

Unlike in Quake 2, doors that touch are NOT automatically teamed. If you want doors to operate together, you have to team them manually by assigning the same team name to all of them.

[fKd]

i feel like you've gone a bit too far with the amount of doors now, the spaces are gettng better, but try only using doors where the draw distance is massive, otherwise i feel like they just get in the way and break flow. (esp when strafe jumping at high speed)

but over all its getting better and better keep it up!

[obsidian]

IMO, opening doors in general should be avoided unless there is a strong gameplay reason to have them. The loud sound that they make is useful if you want know when your opponent has walked through one, so typically they should only be placed in an area that requires a greater than normal risk (like the RL room in Q3DM2). With doors everywhere, you'll be able to hear exactly where he is in the map, which kind of defeats the purpose of using them to limit line of sight. Instead of seeing your opponent, you'll just hear him.

Why use doors, when you can just alter geometry a bit (and would probably make your map more interesting to look at)?

[PaN61]

I was thinking before I released alpha 2 that I may have a door-phobia with the release, seems like I was right.

Anyway, I have updated the OP on releasing Alpha 2b. I hope that the issue with the doors has now been fixed and thus have also fixed the Line of Sight aspect to the 2nd alpha now. Also, I'm not sure if I should increase the z-height or not because it seems quite solid so far. If you think I should, ideas on how I could do this and where I can do this in the map preferably without changing too much of the layout would be a big help.

The feedback so far has been great, I really appreciate it!~
Happy Fraggin'


EDIT: I'm currently planning to minimize the no. crates in the corridor between YA room and Quad room to about 3 crates. I'm also planning to space out the current pillars in Quad room surrounding the SG by a little bit and extending their height to the ceiling.

[CZghost]

Wow, thanks Usable advice for me Next I will keep it in mind

[Plan B]

I love these.

Maybe you could do a graphic tutorial about hint brush placement, area portals etc. along these lines, with drawings like this, and make it a sticky.
I know that's a lot of work, but that would be like, the best LEM post ever

[PaN61]

ALPHA 3 Released!

Sorry it took so long to bring this new alpha release to your doorstep - Had a break over Christmas and New Years and am back into business. Have updated the OP with the new download link and some screenshots.

Will be looking forward to hear from you all once again.
Happy Fraggin'

[AEon]

Some thoughts:

• At the PG the interesting steps, the first lowest step is dropped into the floor, brushes here can and should be deleted since it looks strange presently.
• From the Quad room you have two doorways with central columns right in the middle of them. Even though I like the design idea, i.e. making those passages more interesting. I do think these columns get in the way, and in case you are wondering, visibility-wise (hint brushing and the like) these are completely useless. They don't block enough to make them relevant.
• Your yellow armour on a few boxes, just to me personally, I always hated such jump and run to get at items ever since Quake 2, might be something to reconsider.
• The sliding doors are supposed to block vis. Presently they don't... as I understand vis blocking, you would need to enclose the areas to block off completely in doors or solid walls. But to the left of one of the doors there is an outside passage that would make the room behind leak. So the doors will never work. So you might as well drop them altogether. Unless you like doors as audio clues and visual blocks (gameplay) elements.

[PaN61]

At the PG the interesting steps, the first lowest step is dropped into the floor, brushes here can and should be deleted since it looks strange presently.

Maybe I should have included more detail in that area of which I'm planning to do in beta. I'm guessing it would make that step that is currently in the floor be of some use in terms of technicality and practicality.

From the Quad room you have two doorways with central columns right in the middle of them. Even though I like the design idea, i.e. making those passages more interesting. I do think these columns get in the way, and in case you are wondering, visibility-wise (hint brushing and the like) these are completely useless. They don't block enough to make them relevant.

I was mainly planning for them to block the players line of sight so that there are less easy across-the-map RG shots. Maybe I can remove the column in between the Quad and PG rooms, but not sure what I would put between the SG and Quad rooms if I do decide to remove this one. Then again, I don't mind the one in between the SG and Quad room and will probably be kept how it is. Ideas?

Your yellow armour on a few boxes, just to me personally, I always hated such jump and run to get at items ever since Quake 2, might be something to reconsider.

I quite like the jumping up the crates to the YA. Maybe I should make if only one crate instead of two or maybe put stairs there? What ideas do you propose?

The sliding doors are supposed to block vis. Presently they don't... as I understand vis blocking, you would need to enclose the areas to block off completely in doors or solid walls. But to the left of one of the doors there is an outside passage that would make the room behind leak. So the doors will never work. So you might as well drop them altogether. Unless you like doors as audio clues and visual blocks (gameplay) elements.

They are more so the last sentence that you mentioned. Pretty much will be for visual eye-candy and also serve to block player Line of Sight (imo). I think I will keep them there for that very reason.

[AEon]

Doorway columns: Line of sight to block direct shots e.g. with the RG... fair enough point. So the only thing I would suggest this early on, is to play against bots a bit, and to test yourself of you feel the columns are in the way or not. Or if you actually found that they added to the gameplay, blocking line of fire, making them an interesting addition. I put it in this way, because early in the design of a level I feel more and more the map designer needs to find out what they want to do, to not build a map someone else suggests. Once the map has settled down, the tweaking comments are much more appropriate.

"I quite like the jumping up the crates to the YA. Maybe I should make if only one crate instead of two or maybe put stairs there? What ideas do you propose?"

Since you are gaining height at this point it the map, it might be an opportunity create a "half-height" level path... i.e. add as you mention a few steps to the largest cube with a path through the wall continuing the path maybe. Note this is just a very sporadic thought. But maybe you might be able to work with the general idea, maybe in another part of the map.

I do not properly understand the layout of the map to be able to actually comment on the overall layout. I did feel, that the map was separated into two halves? Where you had to do some running to get into the other half? So my gut reaction is that maybe the map could be compacted somewhat. Again treat this comment only as a vague "inspiration". I could be quite off.

About the sliding doors: Your comments are fair enough. If you feel they help, stick with them. I usually comment on doors because in all my maps I never used any.