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Topic Starter Topic: Re: Industrial Texture Pack
phantazm11
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 06:16 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Fjoggs wrote:
sock wrote:
I thought no one was interested in these textures, after years of minimal downloads and no one making anything from them I had more or less given up. Got to say I did find the old school label for the texture set insulting considering they are mostly photo sourced images by myself and the hand drawn stuff is minimal. These textures can easily look convincing and good for industrial environments, just remember to use real world structural scales and prefabs.


I'd say what made those screens looked oldschool was the way the textures were used, and not the textures themselves. The bridgecrane map is one of the best looking maps I've seen in Quake 3. :)

Hi btw!


Yeah, I certainly misspoke there...I meant to say that the screenshots looked old school, not the textures. Sorry for that. No insult intended. Fjoggs said it a lot better than I did. I think that your industrial map is a technical and artistic masterpiece.
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Pat Howard
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 11:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i never understand "old school" quake references to my work :). i only played quake/quake 2 a handful of times because i was only seven years old by the time quake 3 came out!

@sock: i was also surprised that nobody used this texture set for such a long time. then i tried to use it myself and i quickly realized why that was. your "Bridge Crane" concept was so successful that it was almost impossible for me to avoid one of the following two feelings while mapping:

1. i am plagiarizing "Bridge Crane"
2. the map i'm making looks like shit compared to "Bridge Crane"

this might be kind of an annoyance to hear but, as AEon articulated, i think your work is so good that a lot of mappers are too intimidated to try to improve on it. that said, the community is small and it could have just happened that none of us had the inspiration to make an industrial map at the time this set was released. after all, the strength of "Pyramid Of The Magician" did not stop people from using those terrain textures over and over...

... and over ...

maybe there is less flexibility with an industrial set and that is why people are more likely to get scared off by the first feeling i mentioned? for example, how many different ways are there to use crate and pipe textures? not many. it's also possible that industrial textures are inherently easier to make than organic textures, so people are more likely to photosource from CGTextures to make something that no one has seen before.

there was also the issue that people had with how the textures were packaged. i was only bothered by the "stitched together" textures during the doodling phase of my map. now that i have a strong direction it's not too time consuming to adjust the textures into place, and i actually like working with a smaller number of files. also, i remember reading in a texturing book that it's technically more optimized to condense textures in this way, right?

regardless, it looks like people are getting more interested in this set now, which is good. i hope my map can add some new ideas to it, although i doubt it will even approach the realism of "Bridge Crane", and actually i am going for a more sci-fi feeling than that anyway.

@AEon: if you want to use the 1024x1024 versions of the textures, just keep in mind that every texture you use will add another 3MB to your .pk3 size! personally, i don't want to make people download a map that is over 100MB, so i am just using 512x512. maybe i'm a simpleton but i don't even notice much of a quality difference anyway.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 11:36 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Attachment:
Industrial New Pipe Colours.png
Industrial New Pipe Colours.png [ 248.91 KB | Viewed 464 times ]


On the theme of piping meaning something I recoloured the yellow original, trying to follow Sock's colour wheel Hue offsets, with a bit of tweaking. This way I can play around with the pipe colours some more. Also added a red one for now...

Pat,
my file size will be a lot smaller since I cut the textures apart. If you use Sock's originals, any texture you use will automatically mean you load a 1024 or in your case 512 ones into memory. And I understand the engine logic behind this. The GPU, IIRC saves textures in powers of 2, so 1024x1024 is the "ideal" ("good?") packaging for the GPU. But only if you actually use *all* the textures in that image. Since the textures are sorted by sets, you will most likely use 2-3 and the others are waste in in VRAM and pk3 file size, since they are not used in the map. Unless the engine is actually really clever and does some "image space" cropping. But then again one could say who cares.
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 03:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sockindustrial is actually what I try to use in all my maps that aren't Minecraft or other specific themes, but I never release any. I greatly appreciate that they exist, same with the palace textures (and of course the older packs as well). The palace textures have been useful to me and others; at least some of the textures were used in acc_cath.

While they do look amazing, at least to me it's a bit difficult to use them when they don't scale perfectly to the brush they're on, which forces a very small amount of actual possible uses. Scaling, skewing or distorting textures really bothers me, so I like to have every texture at the same density, and scaled properly on both the X and Y axes. So I can't make them look really great without stealing Sock's style :(

@Pat, 1024 vs. 512 really is visible, and the filesize is not 3MB in the pk3. A raw .tga is 4MB, raw .jpg is less than 1MB. Compressed in a Zip archive, a .tga will still be pretty small. The entire pack is only 200mb in a Zip archive. Filesize is really not an issue if the map looks nice, at least to me. I don't mind filesize, and actually feel like I'm getting a better map if the .pk3 is bigger.
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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 04:07 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


could anyone seperate socks source into seperate images for me?
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 12-30-2014 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Theftbot wrote:
could anyone seperate socks source into seperate images for me?

"Ferrao10" did that a while ago, but apparently password-protected his pack and didn't provide a link. He says pm him, maybe you should try? ;) I have it, but it's really big and I don't want to upload it again... Maybe after I finish adding all the colored variants, I'll zip it up and add it. I dunno.
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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-02-2015 10:30 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I didn't password-protect the final pack of the sliced variants. It can still be found at
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6tu91 ... strial.rar / It is big though, ~160MB.

I had upped a password-protected pack that wasn't completely done while I was slicing and looking for help on the job.
It would be great if you'de take the time and up your coloured variants, KittenIgnition.
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 01-02-2015 04:37 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ferrao10 wrote:
I didn't password-protect the final pack of the sliced variants. It can still be found at
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6tu91 ... strial.rar / It is big though, ~160MB.

I had upped a password-protected pack that wasn't completely done while I was slicing and looking for help on the job.
It would be great if you'de take the time and up your coloured variants, KittenIgnition.

Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing, I'd definitely like a more complete pack. Maybe when I'm done working on my QL stuff I'll cut up the colored ones. I don't have any kind of system to make it go very fast, so it's all done by manually selecting each quarter or sixteenth of a page and saving it as a separate file. Slow and boring, just the way I like it.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-02-2015 04:46 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I have all textures cut up, coloured and base ones... systematic naming in place. Textures that were cut up are in PNG format, uncut ones still TGA.
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 01-02-2015 07:30 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Why use PNG? It's incompatible with almost every configuration of Quake 3, and is quite annoying to work with. TGA is way better.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 01:19 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Because my PS cutting tool does not export to TGA... and since when would it be any issue at all to convert to TGA.
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 03:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


PNG is lossless, so there should be no problems doing it like this.



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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 04:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


As mentioned my tool sliced them into 24bit PNG (luckily the TGA with 32bit e.g. glass) did not need cutting and they are still in TGA format. So far PNG works in GTKradiant 1.6.4... and a while back I asked if there are any downsides to using them. The advantage is the PNGs are smaller in file size (and lossless in compression), though TGA does zip compress very well and since it has less compression probably loads faster into Radiant or Q3A.

This also includes a few pipe, wall crete and hazard stripe textures for which I additionally created other coloured versions.

So if there is interest, I can convert them over to TGA, and pack all sliced images into one huge file. Question is then where do I upload it? I no longer have webspace. A quick zipping of the PNG yields a 308 MB file size, the TGA one will probably be slightly larger (342 MB).

The images are sorted into these folders, mostly according to Sock's original naming:
Code:
industrial_crate
industrial_floor
industrial_girder
industrial_glass
industrial_grid
industrial_light
industrial_mach
industrial_panel
industrial_pipe
industrial_seam
industrial_triangle
industrial_wall

Since I am strictly adhering to Sock's naming convention, it should be trivial to e.g. sort out the coloured metal versions you do not require. In my maps I ended up putting all textures into one folder (except for the light textures that are in a subfolder)...

I also created a shader for all the lights and the grates... though these will need some testing.
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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 07:07 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


KittenIgnition wrote:
Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing...

I don't recall you PMing me. It would have been in March 2012, could be my old brain ;).
Anyways, the pack I upped to mediafire contains most of the basic stuff (grey, brown and yellow) sliced to what I felt was required to work the oldschool-way (no ASEs).

If you guys are talking about coloured variants you are talking about Sock's other packs, right? If I remember correctly he also did orange, blue and green packs?
If you guys did the job on slicing those ones up, it'd be great if you'd make them available.

Mediafire supports files up to 4GB on 32bit browsers and 20GB on 64bit. A free account can upload up to 50GB.
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 10:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Who cares if the images load in Radiant, when they won't load in Q3? Doesn't make any sense.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 10:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Sock,
are you OK with me uploading your sliced textures in TGA format? I added your readme to the files. Had to split it into 3 zips.
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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 11:09 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


KittenIgnition wrote:
Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing, I'd definitely like a more complete pack. Maybe when I'm done working on my QL stuff I'll cut up the colored ones. I don't have any kind of system to make it go very fast, so it's all done by manually selecting each quarter or sixteenth of a page and saving it as a separate file. Slow and boring, just the way I like it.


You have not contacted me, according to my PM box. You may want to rethink...
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 01-03-2015 11:12 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ferrao10 wrote:
KittenIgnition wrote:
Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing, I'd definitely like a more complete pack. Maybe when I'm done working on my QL stuff I'll cut up the colored ones. I don't have any kind of system to make it go very fast, so it's all done by manually selecting each quarter or sixteenth of a page and saving it as a separate file. Slow and boring, just the way I like it.


You have not contacted me, according to my PM box. You may want to rethink...

Yeah I checked as soon as I wrote that message, I also have no messages with you. I thought I had, but if I didn't where did I get the package?
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KittenIgnition
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PostPosted: 01-04-2015 11:39 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Oh yeah, this texture pack was also used for dfwc2014-8 :D
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fKd
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PostPosted: 01-04-2015 11:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I used it for my mapcore comp map as well :)
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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-05-2015 05:18 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


So, Sock gave his OK to redistribute the textures.


Sock's Industrial Texture Pack "Sliced"

The base textures and all the three coloured metal textures from:


have been sliced into individual textures in TGA format. Files had to be spread out over three zip files (four texture folders per zip):


According to Mediafire, files will remain online for 30 days, after the last download.

Includes my shader for all lights, grates and glass. The textures are sorted into folders that follow Sock's naming convention.

Added several of my own textures, i.e. re-coloured versions of existing originals for pipes, crete walls, crates and hazard stipes. Here the included text file with the details:

Code:
Sock's Industrial Textures
-------------------------- sliced into pieces...

The original 1024x1024 px² images, contained in the archives

   tp_industrial_base1.zip
   tp_industrial_blue1.zip
   tp_industrial_green1.zip
   tp_industrial_orange1.zip

    from http://www.simonoc.com/pages/artwork/tp_industrial.htm,

have been sliced into individual textures for easier handling in GTKradiant.
E.g. to help reduce the number of unused textures, and simplify texture
alignment.

The textures adhere to Sock's original file names. When a 1024x1024 px²
texture was cut apart, the slices simply were numbered from top left to
bottom right. So it is quite simple to backtrack what textures belonged to
what original image.

I sorted the textures into folders, in keeping with Sock's texture naming:

   industrial_crate
   industrial_floor
   industrial_girder
   industrial_glass
   industrial_grid
   industrial_light
   industrial_mach
   industrial_panel
   industrial_pipe
   industrial_seam
   industrial_triangle
   industrial_wall

There are a total of 813 textures.


Additional new textures by AEon
-----------------------
I needed a few extra textures so there are newly created pipe textures,
based on Sock's original yellow version:

   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1a_bl.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1a_bo.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1a_g.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1a_r.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_01_bl.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_01_bo.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_01_g.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_01_r.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_02_bl.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_02_bo.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_02_g.tga
   industrial_pipe\met_pipe1b_02_r.tga

   Now also in orange, blue, green and red.

There is an orange version of Sock's original yellow hazard stripes as well:

   industrial_floor\met_hazard08_bo.tga
   industrial_floor\met_hazard16_bo.tga
   industrial_floor\met_hazard32_bo.tga

There is an orange version of Sock's original yellow arrows on the crates:

   industrial_crate\wood_crate1_01o.tga
   industrial_crate\wood_crate1_02o.tga
   industrial_crate\wood_crate1_03o.tga
   industrial_crate\wood_crate1_04o.tga

For the base yellow create wall I created additional colours:

   industrial_wall\concrete1_bl.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete1_g.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete1_o.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete1_r.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete2_bl.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete2_g.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete2_o.tga
   industrial_wall\concrete2_r.tga

   Now also in orange, blue, green and red.

Note: Since I edited Sock's original textures, any quality discrepancy in
these textures would solely fall onto me. So don't bug Sock about them ;).


Copyright
---------
For any copyright information see

  industrial_soc_readme.txt

I am providing my versions of Sock's textures as they are.

AEon (1/3/2015)


Hope all this works.
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sock
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PostPosted: 01-05-2015 05:46 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@Everyone, when pat posted a screenshot and people said it was retro I thought they were talking about the textures, my bad.

@PatH, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be intimidated by my work, there are plenty of things that could be improved in my maps. The industrial texture to me is just a bunch of materials, concrete, metal and fixtures. I would recommend a quick google image search of "abandoned Russian factories" for ideas on a cool landmark to create. A good example map of a solid theme and use of raw materials is McSarge by cityy. The map has some amazing details wrapped around a cool layout.

I can certainly understand the frustration that many have had with the texture layout, (being large sheets) but that is because I stopped creating brushwork only Q3 maps a long time ago. Once I learned of ASE models I loved the idea of them because you get better control over texture alignment, fantastic rotation opportunities and simplified clipping. Also large texture sheets are better for GPU throughput, but that is a minor technical thing nowadays.

I suppose the trick with these kind of textures is to get to the theme and prefabs right first, the textures are not highly details and they work best when the brushwork shape and form is more interesting.



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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-06-2015 10:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's pretty awesome AEon.
Thanks a bunch. I'd have prefered different folders; like trim, support, but whatever. One can and should be able to adapt to different logics ;).

I would suggest anyone who downloaded my pack, go delete it, asap. AEon's has all the stuff I had covered and much more. Keeping both in circulation could lead to naming cnflicts. I tried to verify but it is just easier if you just forget about my pack alltogether and go on with AEon's. I'll delete my pack from mediafire as of now.
Speaking so... AEon, why didn't you contact me those 2.5 years ago? We could have done this together? :P

I have been experimenting with the tex's for all this time and I absolutely agree with what Sock says: These textures complement rich brushwork but they can't make boring brushwork look more interesting.
It's a set for detail-lovers, I suppose.
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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 01-06-2015 11:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


When I meant source into images I meant layers from source into seperate images
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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-06-2015 11:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Theftbot, just ask Sock about it directly, hmm ?
His contact is in his signature or you may use the Personel Message System of this board.
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AEon
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PostPosted: 01-06-2015 11:56 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Ferrao10,

I looked at your post from back then, and wanted all textures cut up... and I probably actually started to do this 2.5 years ago. But then go detracted... had about 70% done.

I also noted your better folder naming... alas I did not see myself able to guess what goes where, so I used the names Sock defined to sort them out. Alas the sorting is pretty pointless when trying to decide what to choose for a new map. I put all textures in my map's texture folder, i.e. textures\aeblocks\ since that can be loaded without hassle in Radiant... and is kinda neater for the .pk3... so yeah... my texture folders are not really that useful. I develop into a .pk3 from the very start so always have a working package. And textures\aeblocks\industrial_floor\ would not work when texture selecting in Radiant (at least id did not for me).
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Ferrao10
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PostPosted: 01-06-2015 12:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Don't worry Aeon.
I pulled my sorting from EvilLairs and Socks classic naming; mach, mat, etc. Trim, Support would have helped to identify horizontal, vertical textures.
But this pack is a wild card, I had difficulties myself on where to put certain things. You did a good job, imo.
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phantazm11
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 09:22 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quote:
I can certainly understand the frustration that many have had with the texture layout, (being large sheets) but that is because I stopped creating brushwork only Q3 maps a long time ago. Once I learned of ASE models I loved the idea of them because you get better control over texture alignment, fantastic rotation opportunities and simplified clipping. Also large texture sheets are better for GPU throughput, but that is a minor technical thing nowadays.


Could you expand on this a little bit? Are you talking about applying sections of your large texture sheets to the model itself in your 3d application? Everything I find concerning texturing models has to do with unwrapping a UV map and then painting the texture from that.

Just wondering if I'm missing an easier way to texture models that are more complex than the terrain I have been creating using UV projections.
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 09:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'm guessing he means that he makes the atlas so he can unwrap it on a model better. Since he's using models for his details in levels instead of brushes(?).



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phantazm11
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 11:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I was hoping for an easier way (I hate UV mapping)

I was just curious because I have heard that in Modo there are plugins where you can texture the model in almost the same way you can brushwork in Radiant. I was hoping for something similar in Max.

...Going back in reading the comment he made, I'm guessing he is actually talking about rotation of the model itself inside Radiant, and not texture rotation abilities.
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Theftbot
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 11:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Blender has a uv project modifier that projects uv exactly like q3/brushes either orthographic/perspective!

Seems that alot dont like uv editing seems pretty cake'ish to me!
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 11:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't have an issue with uvwrapping either, especially if it comes to squareish things, it's really not that difficult.

@ Phant, there are probably several plugins and stand alone apps that can make uvmapping like in radiant or whatever. But if you just want a textrue on a face easy in max, just do a box unwrap and set it to 256 or 128 or whatever. Like this, it's a one second job really.



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phantazm11
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PostPosted: 01-08-2015 12:01 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, simple box or squarish things are not really a problem. I've lately been doing more complex models though, and the more complex you get, of course, the harder it is to unwrap.

I'll get into it though. As far as uv mapping goes, I just need to transfer my knowledge of using morph targets in Lightwave to traditional unwrapping techniques in 3dsMax. I was just hoping to speed things up a bit.
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sock
The Illuminated
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PostPosted: 01-09-2015 04:44 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


phantazm11 wrote:
Could you expand on this a little bit? Are you talking about applying sections of your large texture sheets to the model itself in your 3d application? Everything I find concerning texturing models has to do with unwrapping a UV map and then painting the texture from that.


I know this is going to sound bonkers, but I created a lot of models for my Edge of Forever map by using patches. I setup a bunch of patches with flat (top down) projection and then I moved / twisted the patches into place creating the objects I wanted. I tweaked any patch problems, exported to ASE and then duplicated/rotated the ASE model around the map. Often maps have components that are identical and constantly re-creating them from brushwork is time consuming. Also map layouts often change and being able to move around or tweak ASE components for the whole map is really useful. Buried in the source file download for Edge of Forever is all my ASE models (including their source) if you are curious.

Another cool advantage for ASE models is the default no clip hull. This can be an issue with extremely large maps because you can hit the clip hull limit and the map stops working. ASE models are perfect for vista/distance stuff that the player is never going to reach, this was something I used a lot for my Edge of Forever map when looking through the portal.

Probably my favourite thing about ASE models is that they can be compounded together which makes any updates or tweaks to them extremely quick and easy with some creative batch file use. Due to the fact Q3map2 has an ASE exporter most prefab architecture can easily be created in the editor without having to go near any modelling package.

I am surprised not many mappers use ASE models in Quake3, my Edge of Forever map would have been impossible to create without them and my concept map, the Bridge Crane is over 75% made of models (290 to be exact). Using ASE models is pretty much where level design is nowadays, brushwork caulk hulls jammed full of prefab models.



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Hipshot
This is not Æon!
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: 01-09-2015 11:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't think many mappers uses it cause they are unaware that it's so simple to create them AND they might think those were made in a modelin' app.



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