BETA: thomasc4 - Aussenposten 08

[T_Creutzenberg]

Just to let you know I'm still on it, but real life's got a strong grip on me at the moment...

[AEon]

T_Creutzenberg,
starting a Mars base-like map, I am noting that the AEcell textures simply are not suitable to pull off a DOOM3/Quake4 design.

Would you allow me to "trace" the (mostly wall) textures used in your map to let my add them to the AEcell texture pack?

[obsidian]

Just wanted to say, great looking map. Unfortunately I only had a chance to run around it briefly last week (and since I'm so preoccupied, I haven't the chance to respond). I just wanted to point out that some of the jump pads have targets that are a little high, essentially making railbait of anyone trying to use one. IIRC the YA one near the top of the map.

[T_Creutzenberg]

Would you allow me to "trace" the (mostly wall) textures used in your map to let my add them to the AEcell texture pack?

Yeah, sure, as long as you give me proper credit for it in the readme.
Oh, and I don't know which naming conventions you use for your texture pack, but it would be nice to have it like AEcell_[originalTextureName], so people know where these textures origineate from and are already grouped in the editor. E.g. AEcell_thomasc4_floor_04.jpg

I just wanted to point out that some of the jump pads have targets that are a little high, essentially making railbait of anyone trying to use one. IIRC the YA one near the top of the map.

Yes, this is intentional as you can actually reach other areas than the obvious one the bounce pad is targeted to. With the one you're talking about you can also jump to the ledge with the two small (5) healths. Personally I always want to have more than one option where I can go with a jumppad when I use it.

[AEon]

• AEon: Would you allow me to "trace" the (mostly wall) textures used in your map to let my add them to the AEcell texture pack?
  • T_Creutzenberg: Yeah, sure, as long as you give me proper credit for it in the readme.
    Oh, and I don't know which naming conventions you use for your texture pack, but it would be nice to have it like AEcell_[originalTextureName], so people know where these textures origineate from and are already grouped in the editor. E.g. AEcell_thomasc4_floor_04.jpg

Thanks, very gracious of you.

Looking at the texture names I was thinking of something like:

• AEcell_t4floor_04.jpg

i.e. all your textures would get unique name prepended (_t4), to also make it easier in the credits. I am shying away from using the full original name because this makes the names very long, especially in the editor's texture window. Hope the shorthand _t4 vs. _thomasc4_ is acceptable. I'd try to keep the rest of the texture name (numbers etc.) the same. And of course like all other textures added, you will get full and explicit credit.

(If you'd like to be credited in a certain way, drop me a PM, I'll add that then: i.e. full name/web, explicit email mention or not).

[AEon]

Looking at your map, trying to understand how you created some of the geometry, I noted three areas with sparklies, especially the ones at the JP and the steps, would be good to fix, IMO:

• [lvlshot]http://aemap.hugelaser.com/misc/thomasc4_01.jpg[/lvlshot]

[T_Creutzenberg]

I found one place where the r_speeds went up over 20k. I don't know what the limit to acceptable r_speeds is nowadays, but I noticed some slowdown there - and nearly nowhere else on the map (it's here at this spot).

This is fixed now, a brush that should have been structural was detail. You had full view into the tower. r_speeds are now a few thousand less, so totally acceptable.

- Did you put a lift here because the height didn't justify a bouncer? I think it needs one anyway. Lifts are slow and players get impatient waiting for them unless there is an item on the other end of the ride. Also, I don't like how that crate to the left is perfectly flat.

I tilted the crate a littlebit, really looks better now. But I will leave the lift. I really like it like this here.

- Something weird is going on here...

Thanks, fixed.

- How about a thin orange fog for your water? Due to the bright orange rust color of it you wouldn't think it would be so transparent when you jump into it.

I already tried it and it was horrible. But it was worth the try.

- The two 50s right above the mega is a little weird. I think a weapon would be better in one of these spots. (See below.)

- More on weapons, have you looked at an overview of the weapon placement in this map? Almost everything is on the outer ring! I am begging you to give me a reason to use the upper levels of your two opposing central rooms. At least a second RL or something? This is by far my biggest problem with the map.

Maybe I'll rework the whole item placement.

- My second biggest problem is still the lighting. I know I've mentioned these things before but I usually like to get in a second try on the author before I shut up . There isn't enough variety. The insane brushwork and texturing conceals how garish some of the lighting really is, but still, I think you can and should do better.

Where and what exactly is it you don't like?

- And finally, I want to leave on a positive note so you don't get the wrong idea about the quality of this map. I just wanted to tell you I've spent quite a bit of time noclipping around this map lately... just looking. You are extremely talented. This map is already a keeper for me, even in beta.

Thanks

[T_Creutzenberg]

Looking at your map, trying to understand how you created some of the geometry, I noted three areas with sparklies, especially the ones at the JP and the steps, would be good to fix, IMO:

• [lvlshot]http://aemap.hugelaser.com/misc/thomasc4_01.jpg[/lvlshot]

Cheers, The second and third are fixed. I'm afraid I can't fix the first one though as it's not a hom effect. The lowest wall trim is shining through and there's no way I can not not put it there

[Pat Howard]

Where and what exactly is it you don't like?

You know, before I was saying there wasn't enough variety. Now after a closer look it feels like it's actually too much variety that is disturbing me. Lighting is funny that way - it's kind of a "less is more" thing. Also, the light source types never seem to have a consistent purpose. Cool and warm colors are mixed all over the place. Some lights give off strong beams while others don't. Some areas are extremely bright for no apparent reason. I'm going to give you specific examples of what I like/don't like and why, but I think I should leave it up to you as the artist to find the final solutions. All I can do as a tester is beg for more consistency in your lighting, but giving advice on the exact colors/intensities you should be using would obviously be overstepping my bounds.

Okay, let me start with something I like:

These powerful beam spotlights give off a colder color than the other light sources around the map. The cold color in its contrasting powerful beam along with the dark alcove behind it evoke an abandoned/desolate feeling that suits this area perfectly because it is in a far corner of the map.

K, now here's something I don't like: (You'll notice a lot of my problems originate in lack of consistency.)

Here you have another one of those "cold" spotlights, but it's smack in the middle of a set of completely different "warm" spotlights which can be confusing for the eyes.

Also, the cold spotlight has that powerful beam, but if you look at the floor you'll see that the warm spotlights, even without beams, project hotspots that are nearly as powerful as the cold one. I think these warms spotlights should act more as "filler" lights, since their off-white color isn't really that interesting and doesn't deserve to be so defined. You can see more hotspots on the lower floor. Once again, I think these lights would be better if they spread light more evenly across the floors and especially the walls they are next to.

Yet another inconsistency:

Here's one of those "warm" wall lights again, but this time it has the powerful beam that is usually seen with the cold spotlights. Why is this beam there? There is nothing for the light to scatter through, and this particular wall light is no more powerful than the other wall lights around it.

Just want to reiterate something:

Here's another type of light that is often used under low ceilings. As I said before they are a little overpowered. The strength of the light along with the thick black shadow lines of this metal texture that Tab was mentioning produce a particularly garish result.

Water lighting:

I thought the lighting went a little overboard here. You're shining those powerful wall lights on the tiny ground lights that are already powerful enough on their own making the water blindingly bright where the hotspots collide. This is another thing that would probably be fixed by turning the wall lights from spotlights to filler lights like I suggested above. You can see another example in the RA pool:


Here the water lights were doing an awesome job lighting the pool on their own, but the wall lights yet again intrude and make certain spots stand out for no reason.

Summary: Thankfully it doesn't take all that long to change the attributes of large groups of lights. I would just play around with your lighting and make sure you have a consistent purpose for placing warm or cool colors. There are a few other light sources that I like but didn't mention. I like the sky because it gives off a warm night time Mars-y feeling that suits the orange water/ground nicely. The shadows are a little strong considering the clouds and lack of sunlight, but they are pretty cool regardless so I'd keep them anyway. I also like the deep orange light that the bouncers and item pads give off. This kind of deep warm lighting contrasted with the cold spotlights in other areas will be even more moving if you dumb down the wall lights, which are getting way too much attention in their current state.

I think that's enough on the lighting for now. Let me just mention a couple other unrelated things.

About the Haste elevator:

I intenionally wanted people to only be able to access this from the upper area.

I get that part, I'm just wondering why it's an elevator and not just a normal platform. Seems a little weird to have it there, especially from a real world perspective. Not too big of a deal I guess. Keep it if you really like it.


How about cutting a hole above the YA for a nice skylight?

Hope I verbalized a little better this time. Let me know what ya think?
-pat

[v1l3]

I know I don't have much for technical comments, but I'm amazed with how large the map is and it runs SMOOTH on my PC which is a HP 3500+ AMD Athlon 64 Processor - 512MB memory - ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Graphics. I'd say that I'm amazed, but I already know that your TOP DOG!
I'm amazed that you did this for free!! Thank You

[Salinga]

Hi!

I hope you will let me do a conversion of your map for EF like I did with Trickster:
http://eliteforce2.filefront.com/file/S ... ster;63704

BTW are you planning to add environmental sounds to the map? I always found realistic environments without sounds a bit "lifeless", like frozen in time.

[T_Creutzenberg]

Hey guys, thanks very much for your feedback! I'm still working on it, but my spare time shrinked down to a few hours per week again ... so it'll be a little bit before I can update the map.
@Salinga: Sure you can, no problem at all.

[nitin77]

another qfraggel map is always welcome, screenies looks tremendous.

[themuffinman]

That's an impressive map right there Why no final version? It's a pity to abandon such a masterpiece of a map like that.

[monaster]

Let's not forget this is an impressive 1 1/2 year bump by nitin77

[HelterSkeleton]

i just had a quick look at your map and thought i'd say a few positives and maybe 1 negative.

i like the overbounce on the rail gun pad, the lift for the haste is good - it sets up some nice exchanges between this and the other lift and the powerup itself really opens up the top. also the rl ammo is really well placed for the feel you are going for (not easy!) which brings me to the rl - only the 1! i understand the use of 1rg/1rl for the type of play you are setting up but why oh why! does this always happen on the maps just begging for rocket jumps - very stressful - grrrr. i wanna be that guy, the one with the rocket launcher/armor/health - doesn't everyone - no hogging now!

[Pat Howard]

i just stumbled upon q-fraggel's old maps on lvlworld and there was a comment to this thread; i hadn't been able to find it for years. although it's not as impressive in 2015 as it once was, this is still an awesome map and it's a shame it wasn't released. sigh... unfinished maps like these make quake feel so dead!

[AEon]

The map AEdm7 inherited the AP shader and texture from

[v1l3]

I sent Qfraggel an email at around the end of last year, asking him about this map, and he replied saying that he had just kind of abandoned it because real life had gotten in the way. /shrug ..maybe if more people email him expressing their interest in it, it might make him jump back onto it .. it is an awesome map, and I sent it to someone to add it to their server for a week and I got to play it online against a good group of people ..was fun

[AndyW]

Id would be awesome to see QFraggle again in here.
He already did amazing work when i started to do Q3 stuff in 2001.