"Trespass" Tourney [Final]

[Pat Howard]

woah, man, you lived there? what a small world!

[AndyW]

Jeah, about 9 years! I was living in Mannheim-Jungbusch, its like 300meters to BASF.
You lived in Ludwigshafen?
@AndehX: Jeah i know bout that, but it would be way cooler to add an "Siren" too, like the "Wooop Wooop Wooop" in Deva-Stations GL-trigger room!

[foralarx2k3]

@Pat

Thanks for sharing this bundle of fun with us. I'm a little late with feedback here as I've only just re-installed Q3. I've run a few games on this against a nightmare visor. The connectivity on this is great and it'll make for some interesting games when it makes final. (Love the route from the shotgun corridor via the post ledge to the what is now the GL ledge - though I didn't actually use it much in game - so what's replaced the gl?). Didn't really think there was a need for the step on box ledges at lg and MH. The maxfps dm13 trick takes care of that. I did find a few times I fell between the box and the wall at the MH one though a couple of times. (Bad timing on my part maybe). The only other thing is I wanted to use the ledge on the post that has the crane hanging from it now to transverse the gap but kept getting snagged and falling down to the pit / jump-pad. Final thing from the screen shots. Is the plasma gun a little too close to the MH there ?

My usual disclaimer (it's been a few years ) All feedback my own personal opinion.. take what you will from it, dis-guard the rest or all of it, I won't be offended

Kind of inspires me to dust of radient.

Ian
AKA FoRa

[Pat Howard]

bumping this thread because beta is now up. check the first post for the download link. thanks!

[AndyW]

Wow,
Impressive & very motivating!!!
Looks like a real place, awesome what you get out of the "oldie but goldie" Q3-Engine!
Will give it a run in LAN later...
Oh man... dont know what to say... Hehehe

[Pat Howard]

thanks, andy.

you may want to download it again because i just updated the link with some tiny changes i overlooked. stronger lighting and a few bot bug fixes.

[AndehX]

Unbelievable work Pat. Your attention to detail is second to none.

Heres a few things I wanted to comment on:

Im not convinced that there should only be a 25 health here. I think the RA would be better suited up here since it's a pretty exposed area. Maybe im missing something, you're alot better at mapping than I am :P


Looks like the moss should extend onto this wall here, instead of stopping in a line where the 2 walls meet.


This decal isn't lined up properly :P


You probably already know this, but little areas like this, need to be clipped properly


I absolutely love these teleporters. Do I have permission to use them in my maps? :P


Not alot to pick out, but thats obviously a good thing

Well worth the wait for this map. I'll definitely keep it in my baseq3 folder!

[AndyW]

Im not convinced that there should only be a 25 health here.

QUAD-DAAMAAGE!

[Pat Howard]

thanks, guys. i will get to fixing those bugs.

I absolutely love these teleporters. Do I have permission to use them in my maps? :P

hipshot made them. you can find them in his maps crescent and solitude. his assets are free for the community to use so i'm sure he won't mind. i did tweak the shader a bit in my version.

Im not convinced that there should only be a 25 health here.

i probably won't change this. i'm not saying you guys are wrong, it could create a fun battles in that room, but here is my reasoning for the low RA if you are interested:

- when you place an armor you should consider it in relation to the other armors in the map, not just what would make the best battles in a given room. if i moved the RA up it would be much easier to run the armors. you would be able to go RA >> MH or RA >> regen/YA much more quickly on the top level which could make domination too easy. with the RA low, the quickest way between the RA and MH is the vulnerable low path. this balances out the less vulnerable but slightly slower high paths.
- jumping off from the last point: in general, armors should be spaced apart not only in XY but also in Z. right now i have YA and RA low, MH mid, YA/regen high. if i moved the RA high my map would be too top heavy.
- without the RA at the bottom of that room, i don't see much incentive for players to drop down to ground level.
- there are more angles approaching the RA when it is low. if it was on that post, you'd only be able to reach it from the two side paths or a rocket jump. this could make gameplay more repetitive.
- as for as the quad, i think it would be overpowered in this small map, especially right next to the RA.

[foralarx2k3]

So I thought I'd try out the beta, knowing about the r_speeds and given I have an old off the shelf PC from Tesco that cost the princely sum of £269 about 6 years ago. It's not a gaming rig but it is capable of running the game and runs the standard maps quite smoothly, if I keep the com_maxfps at 83.

The system specs are:- 2.7Ghz AMD Athlon II X2 215 Processor with 4GB Ram on Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit. It has an onboard graphics chip (no separate card) that gives out a whooping Windows Experience Index of 3.8

So how does it run the map. Well to be honest, not smooth enough to make a decent game of the map in lightmap mode... But it's still playable in Vertex light mode with a very reasonable frame rate at that. So there's you answer and now you don't have to worry any more about it Pat

My only gripe... lose the box next to the GL ... it's really annoying.

[v1l3]

amazing map .. I think you should move that REGEN to where the 25 health is \shrug ...and AndehX ..nice weaponskins, you should put them up for download

[AndehX]

...and AndehX ..nice weaponskins, you should put them up for download

I might do that... soon

[Pat Howard]

move that REGEN to where the 25 health is

i guess i just don't see what the solution would be for the other item positions if i did that. i'll think about it but i am having trouble finding a setup where the MH and RA are spaced evenly, all the rooms have something valuable, and there is a powerup on the 25+ reactor.

i could have a 2nd YA where the regen is now and then swap the 25+ for the regen, but then i think people would complain the map is too stacked for FFA.

[v1l3]

well..I guess I view that spot as something which would hold an important item(putting it on display) .. since it is quite attractive itself => yeah..I'm not sure of what to put in the REGEN's current spot if you did that .. but that spot is perfect for a powerup .. would be nice to play it online

[CZghost]

Some quick design tips you might take care on. I used noclip to take first area, but I'm sure it can be seen anyway. The door look like melted into floor in the restricted area, on the other side the floor is lower. Making some stairs?



I seen you included well known jumppad from Rustgrad, just in yellow. There are all textures for shader, but in game there I miss the floating squares. Do you plan to add it later or just forgot?


Like there was already said the stain decal on the stairs do not look very well. I think using _decal entity there would be better - compiler will then take it and wrap it around the brushwork - that would look much cleaner...


The gameplay is wonderful! I must say 5 players is soo enough to take action

[m4xpower]

Looking good . Two thumbs up...

Just a few things I've noticed:
Only took it for a quick spin, but the lager areas are causing fps drops. The LG area and the RA drop + archways to the teleporter feel weirdly like a bloodrun re-imagination - inverted/mirrored and switched, but still familiar.
Maybe you could add an "empty" (first!) shader stage to the foliage shaders. It causes the foliage to "disapper" in r_vertexlight 1.

Tele-exit decal would be nice, as I get confused sometimes
The shaders for pads, teleporters, foliage, plants and weapon/armor spawns need a "nopicmip".

An example for the "empty" shader stage:
{
map textures/masked/nothing.tga
blendfunc blend
tcMod scale 0 0
}

Link to the tga:
http://www63.zippyshare.com/v/pxif9Jlo/file.html

[Pat Howard]

thank for the feedback, guys. i will fix the bugs.

@m4xpower: yes, the double arch to tele was definitely a blood run ripoff , but i actually wasn't thinking about blood run when i made the LG area. that area just grew out of the other two atriums which were made first.

[Eraser]

Played a short game on it against bots.
Map looks great and plays great. That's pretty much all there is to say.

I agree with the +25 health on the reactor though. Might be a slightly beefier item. Maybe put the regen there and move the +25 to the current regen spot.

[AndehX]

I don't know why, but for some reason, I feel like the RL should be where the regen is right now...

[Pat Howard]

alright, alright, i will put the regen up there . tourney item placement will stay the way it is though because i really like it.

what i'm going to do is regen on the reactor, YA where the regen was, and then two 25 healths where the low YA was so the overall amount of health in the map will be the same as before.

i may also change the RA to a second YA because it just seems like too much in one place to have the regen right on top of the RA now. i've never made an FFA without an RA so that might be interesting.

bots won't be able to get the regen if it's on the reactor, but i can place a bot-only spawn there to give them some chance of nabbing it. i've seen them RJ and jump for it when roaming the map solo, which is pretty cool to watch, but there are too many distractions for them to do it in a real game.

anyway thanks for all the positive feedback on the looks/layout.

[Fjoggs]

The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place.

[Pat Howard]

The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place.

that's why i'm not too attached to the FFA placement

[foralarx2k3]

Having played a few more times....

If you put the regen on top of the generator post, it's gonna be right above the RA. Given the layout and that the top of the post is not reachable to the bots. whilst it may feel off having the 25h there, maybe it's a good choice of item. It's also enough to be tempting to a human to want to get whilst providing a trap from below for the bot/player with an LG / RG in hand down there.
It also leads to the question of if the regen it only a drop away (literally) from the RA, do you need to move the RA, and if so where ?

I think what's really missing in a reason to go up to the overlooking ledge above it to be honest, rather than what's on top off the generator post.

Ian
AKA FoRa.

Edit:- I wrote this earlier ... didn't see Pat's latest comments until after I hit submit.

Edit2:-

The real question is, if this is a 1on1 map, why is there a regen in there in the first place.

It's a good counter to the Mega ? ... never did see why a tourney map has to forego all power ups.

[Pat Howard]

just so everyone knows: there are two item loadouts. in ffa/tdm, the regen spawns. in tourney mode, a YA spawns there instead.

@foralarx: these were some of my main concerns with putting a regen there, which is why i was hesitant in the beginning to do it. i think the alt. loadout i suggested above might work well though, and if it pleases the majority of FFA players i am okay with it.

i think the reason powerups don't work in tourney mode is because they are just too powerful. it might not matter in a game with two novice players who make lots of mistakes anyway, but throw two pros in there and they will destroy each other.

p.s. remember that this is a tourney map first and foremost. vantage points above the big armors like the high path above the RA will be much more useful in tourney mode, but kind of irrelevant in FFA.

[CZghost]

Reffering to my decal tip I made simple arena with stairs and two tabun's decals. There is download with BSP for game and source for Radiant and some shots to preview:

Download sample map (PK3, place in baseq3)
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/test_decalstair_editor.jpg[/lvlshot]
Editor shots
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/test_decalstair_ingame.jpg[/lvlshot]
In-game shots