Russia in the Ukraine. Conspiracy or not?

[Captain]

According to who?

[seremtan]

according to 11 out of 10 experts, that's who

[Tsakali]

lol

[seremtan]

i imagine Crimea will now go stripey on atlases, like the Golan Heights

[Transient]

According to who?

According to public census data analyzed by a blogger and then parroted by Gawker and Daily Dot, so nevermind. I don't hold too much weight in it and I can't find any other sources.

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/crimea ... evastopol/

[losCHUNK]

Considering the portion of Ukranians / Tatars in Crimea and the 90%+ turnout with a 90%+ majority, it definitely has a fishy smell about it

[lvlshot]http://www.channelnewsasia.com/blob/1028786/1394539511000/crimea-ethnic-composition-data.jpg[/lvlshot]

Referendums aren't meant to take place during a period of upheaval in such a short timescale with the governing parliament having overall control of pro-Russian propaganda.

But like has been mentioned in this thread the vote would have probaly gone through anyway.

[feedback]

yeah obvs most of the ukranians wouldn't have voted for it and the tatars sure as fuck wouldn't have voted for it.

[Ryoki]

Meanwhile in the Ukraine:

http://news.antiwar.com/2014/03/19/ukra ... -official/

The referedum percentage is unrealistically high but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it entirely - a disturbing amount of the folks now in power in the Ukraine appear to be very nasty indeed. I can understand how an ethnic minority that has been historically repressed has no great fondness for Russia, but i can also see how there would be no love lost between them and white supremacists.

[losCHUNK]

I thought the neo-nazi thing was Russian propaganda, I havn't looked into it much but from what I gathered the Svoboda party was the extreme, fundamentalist group that played a big part behind the protests. If we look at the breakdown -

Government (250)
All Ukrainian Union "Fatherland" (88) Yulia Tymoshenko's party
Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform (42) Vitali Klitschko's group
All-Ukrainian Union (36) "Svoboda"
"Economic Development" Group (33) Breakaway faction from Party of Regions
Non-affiliated (51)

Opposition Parties (199)
Party of Regions (127) Yanukovych's party
Communist Party of Ukraine (32)
Non-affiliated (40)

You can see why they were included into the government, because if they had decided to ally with the opposition the overall majority would fall in favour of the oppositon, losing the popular vote.

I figured that this is what the propaganda was directed at, having a fundamental group as part of the state but doesn't really reflect the overall current government or their direction. Also doesn't mean they would have any sway when a re-election happens or that they will have any power towards the end of it.

If someone wanted to shed some light on this then I'd like to hear because I gave up trying to understand the internal workings by digging through shit and getting preached at by 2 sets of bellends on another forum, but I think the vital thing here is that the current government in the Ukraine is only temporary until a new vote can take place, something that won't be given to the Crimean population again. Should also mention that this is the only way they could form a united front against Russia, as when they tried giving power to any one party the protestesters from the opposing factions found this un acceptable.

Also, Yanukovych was ousted by his own party. I'm not sure what their political motivation is now, wether it changed from pro-EU to pro-Russian, but during the time of elections in the Ukraine his parties manifesto was highly motivated towards joining the EU whilst maintaining relations with Russia.

[Ryoki]

It's Right Sector as well as Svoboda i think.

Justin Raimundo has been writing about it:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014 ... n-fascism/

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014 ... evolution/

[losCHUNK]

Nice swan, 1st I heard of them

I think they come under non affiliated, the party is apparently tiny and managed to negotiate a high level position the same way that Svoboda did, so it seems. They were apparently formed in direct opposition to joining Russia and had a huge involvement in the uprising.

Right Sector

The Right Sector is a radical nationalist opposition group said to be a key factor behind the recent violence in Kiev.

The group emerged in the media spotlight after its activists clashed with police in central Kiev on 19 January. The group's account on the VKontakte social network that day encouraged members to come to the scene, bringing bottles for Molotov cocktails and bombs.

According to one Right Sector leader, Andriy Tarasenko, the organisation was set up in late November 2013 and includes several small ultra-right groups, among them Trident, Patriot of Ukraine, White Hammer and Ukrainian National Assembly-Ukrainian National Self-Defence. "But most participants are just ordinary citizens having no relation to any organisations," he said.

Although Right Sector activists have been participating in the pro-EU protests sparked by President Viktor Yanukovych's sudden U-turn on EU integration from the start, their ultimate goal, Mr Tarasenko said, is not having closer ties with Brussels but "staging a nationalist revolution".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26001710

Wiki says a Sotsis ? poll had them at 1.6%, a 'think tank' in another article I seen could see them getting anywhere up to 3%. Best I could find

I think the ruling government when including these radicals into government positions were hoping to keep them controlled, wether they have or not is the debate ?

[scared?]

The us was giving those right wing moron groups $50 million a month to start shit... it worked...

[losCHUNK]

And with all that money they went out and purchased empty bottles with some petrol

[losCHUNK]

Oh yea and Russia gave Yanukovich's government 15bn in December...

That one is actually a fact and why everyone went apeshit

[seremtan]

It's Right Sector as well as Svoboda i think.

Justin Raimundo has been writing about it:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014 ... n-fascism/

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014 ... evolution/

right, now i understand

Hitler was overthrown by Nazis, who filled the new cabinet with Nazis, but while they weren't looking, the other Hitler over the border sliced off a bit for himself, which is just the kind of thing Hitler used to do

all makes perfect sense

[Plan B]

Love all the indignation from the US and EU.

Well played Vladimir.
Got em with the long game

[seremtan]

Putin wants to be taken seriously as a big dog in world affairs but this adventure just confirms that Russia is a strictly regional power

contrast with the many-tentacle threat of world communism, as depicted in Cold War propaganda

[scared?]

Yeah the largest country in the world and all of it's resources plus thousands of nukes = regional power... MORON ALERT!!!...

[seremtan]

list of Russian military bases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R ... ses_abroad (all but Vietnam and Syria in continguous nations = regional power)

list of US military bases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... tary_bases (all around the world = global power)

"largest country in the world" - true, it's 6,611,784 sq miles. however, by that logic, Antarctica (5,400,000 sq miles) must be the second most powerful nation on earth

Geoff's self-hating logic fails again

[Transient]

Followed closely by... Canada?

[scared?]

hey dipshit two above...they have a shitload of resources...they are the number two power atm but if there was a war there would be two possible outcomes...both sides lose(nuclear) or russia wins(resources + less pussified)...got it chump?...

[Tsakali]

lol you're comparing a situation concerning a 3rd party... remember what happened the last time someone directed their efforts towards the US?

[feedback]

shhh let the self-loathing Americunts hope for their own deaths

[scared?]

Says the americunt...pathetic...

[feedback]

equally british... and not self-loathing... pathetic...next?