mccain won tonites debate...

[scared?]

I'M NOT VOTING FOR EITHER ONE OF THESE ASSHOLES...BUT IT'S OBVIOUS MCCAIN LOST THE DEBATE...UNless ur a moron...

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

missed this but would like to hear more opinions on how it was...

[R00k]

Ugh. If McCain wasn't such a grumpy cunt, he would've won this going away. I call it a draw...Obama's counter punching was too monotone and cerebral...especially during all that 'cut spending' crap near the beginning. Thank god Palin is still alive.

This is pretty close to my opinion of it as well. Obama made some good points, but his voice hardly ever changed pitch, he didn't really make any jokes or connection with the audience, or smile. He also was way too nice to McCain - I think he realized this when he started calling him Senator McCain instead of John, but he was never able to ram home how ridiculous McCain's candidacy is, due to his current positions and his history, which is what he really needed to convince people of. He had zingers, but most of them were a full 2 minutes long. And I don't know why he kept saying "Senator McCain is right."

On the other hand McCain was pretty personable. But after the debate, I heard a couple of talking heads mention how McCain had kept his cool and not blown up, to try to overcome his reputation as an impulsively angry person. I didn't understand that - to me it looked like toward the end of the debate McCain wanted to shove his podium over and thump on his chest.
Also, I don't know if McCain's mic was louder than Obama's, or if he was leaning closer to it or what, but when they both talked at the same time, McCain had no problem talking right over Obama. Obama just let it happen and waited for him to finish, which was the right thing to do most of the time, but once toward the end, McCain actually interrupted him, and he let McCain drown him out.

But ultimately, I think the debate's going to be decided by which sound bytes get played over and over on the news channels. Obama had a good opportunity to clarify what McCain really stands for last night, in front of everyone. He took advantage of that in some areas, but didn't in others (he let McCain get away with claiming support from vets, even though the VFW doesn't like him and Obama has gotten tons more donations from troops overseas). But after hearing what a poor debater he is, I was fairly happy with his performance. Hopefully they'll be reviewing the tape a lot and his campaign will help him with his weak points.

So I think the debate was probably too close to call. McCain was almost completely lacking in any specific plans for the future, instead opting to attack Obama. But what he didn't have in concrete points to lay out, he fairly made up for with personality and bluster and stories, which - as much as I hate to admit it - has a lot of effect on the audience. And that's what scoring the debate is about - how many people changed their minds or made a decision based on it?

One thing hurt McCain a lot though: Obama talked about his plans to give tax cuts to huge corporations and rich people, but not to the middle class -- and John McCain never refuted that. That's gonna smart.

[tnf]

Why not just keep attacking McCain's judgment by reminding everyone that this guy has decided that Palin is qualified to run this country and be the commander in chief if he were to die? Technically Palin could be president in January. The fact that there is a nonzero probability of this event should be enough to keep anyone from voting for McCain. Of course, if they point out that McCain put politics before security of the country with his choice of Palin, they will get blasted as being sexist. The republicans will keep palin under wraps even more now most likely (I hope I am wrong) so that they can hype the results of last nights debate (although the national polls I've seen have Obama winning handily - about 800,000 people in one poll with obama up by 15% or so and the trend seems to be that across the board.

I think people might have not been looking for knockout blows by obama but rather to see if he really looked as inexperienced as McCain has tried to paint him. He held his own despite falling into the trap of letting McCain continually control the debate by making attacks obama had to respond to and by making the HUGE mistake of saying "i agree" or "mccain is right"...
But people could see that he did look 'presidential' and perhaps that is what a lot of the fence sitters were concerned about. They knew they didn't want more war, more republican bullshit, but wanted to see if this other guy just crumbled on the big stage.

And yea, like rook said, mccain never talked about plans for the future. What amazes me is that he and palin haven't really done that this entire campaign - other than vague bits about how their maverick status will change things or how they won't blink with terror or will take the fight to them and drill for more oil.

I really hope the middle class of this nation is taking note of that fact.
And I really hope that the young people in this nation really get out to vote (but like Chris Rock described Bil Mahr - obama believes he can win if he gets the most votes, but he is wrong.)

[vesp]

what a joke this all is.

but the whole thing is SO close to having just too much absolute horror in it to be comedic... which makes it funny and scary all at once :/

ffs.. don't fuck this up USA... if you do, you'll be dragging everyone else in the shit aswell.

[R00k]

I don't really know all that much about Biden. People keep calling him 'kinda crazy' or 'out there' -- why is that? From what I've seen of his speeches and interviews, I like the guy. He seems to make up for a lot of the bad perceptions about the Dems with his strong, common sense language.

[scared?]

the only ppl who think mccain did well are the pundits and the morons...he might have not completely fucked up...like palin will sunday, but he didn't do himself any favors...even the foxnews poll said mccain got spanked...

[R00k]

It seems from the polling that I underestimated the public's ability to listen to logic and see through bumper sticker slogans. I intentionally didn't take in the pundits' talk about the debate or read much about it at all until I made up my own mind, but I'm surprised at how well Obama seems to have done with people.

A couple of interesting comments here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/26/pre ... -blogging/

11:47: CNN’s Roland Martin’s reaction to the debate: “John McCain, how dare you come and give a debate and you don’t even say the word ‘middle class.’”

11:35: Fox pollster Frank Luntz’s focus group showed that a majority was “moved” by Obama’s performance. They especially liked his answer pointing out that McCain was “wrong” on nearly every aspect of the Iraq war, including when he said the Iraq war would be quick and easy and that Americans would be greeted as liberators

If Frank Luntz's focus group liked Obama, then it's practically a grand slam.

[Captain]

missed this but would like to hear more opinions on how it was...

-McCain promising to fight and crush the enemy, whoever and wherever they are
-America will be safer with each country destroyed
-possibly implied every American would be dead or communist if Obama were to make war decisions
-reminded everyone he was a PoW
-Obama was smirking through most of McPain's rinse-repeat arguments
-Obama said years ago Amurcah was the only true "land of opportunity" in the world (lulz)
-Fox then happily decided McPain won by a landslide.
-lots of black people

[R00k]

Madeleine Albright made a good point:

"Tonight was a breakthrough for Senator Obama, who showed himself truly ready to be president. He responded knowledgeably, thoughtfully and confidently to the toughest questions on the economy, Iraq, and terror. Meanwhile, Senator McCain spent so much time attacking his opponent, he neglected to show how a McCain-Palin administration would differ from Bush-Cheney. As a result, Obama answered the threshold question about his candidacy; McCain did not."

-Obama said years ago Amurcah was the only true "land of opportunity" in the world (lulz)

That's not what he said, and that wasn't his point. Stop being so bitter.

[Fender]

http://mediacurves.com/
Pretty predictable. Dems preferrer/supported Obama's positions 80% and repubs McCain's 80%.
Independents favored Obama between 53% and 67%, depending on the issue. Maybe there's hope.
And again w/ undecided voters.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26 ... 2028.shtml

[Dr_Watson]

mccain got killed out there, and I hated obama until last night.
that debate was the first time he started talking to us like we're adults, finally explained himself in rational terms, and didn't rely on his previous rhetoric of "change" "hope" "care bears will be in my cabinet, together we'll fix everything that's wrong".
he was completely different last night than he was in any of the democratic debates, that could just be because the democratic candidates he was debating then were much more prepared and formidable opponents... but anyone that thinks mccain came out on top is a maroon.
bottom line is that if he keeps up the way he has been the last few weeks I won't feel dirty voting for him. dude has made lots of progress since the convention.

[DooMer]

They need a team of fact checkers. Have a big screen behind the candidates, and when they spout off complete bullshit, play what they've said in the past, or correct them. You shouldn't be able to get away with flat out lies.

[R00k]

mccain got killed out there, and I hated obama until last night.
that debate was the first time he started talking to us like we're adults, finally explained himself in rational terms, and didn't rely on his previous rhetoric of "change" "hope" "care bears will be in my cabinet, together we'll fix everything that's wrong".
he was completely different last night than he was in any of the democratic debates, that could just be because the democratic candidates he was debating then were much more prepared and formidable opponents... but anyone that thinks mccain came out on top is a maroon.
bottom line is that if he keeps up the way he has been the last few weeks I won't feel dirty voting for him. dude has made lots of progress since the convention.

His plans have been out there for a while now, you just have to go read them.

[Chupacabra]

agreed...have you not been paying attention watson? :P

[Fender]

They need a team of fact checkers.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... _no_1.html

[andyman]

watching it now on youtube... im not defending obama but mccain is being a real dick most of the time. Also, 15 minutes in and he's already made two wisecracks about his age and doubletaked on a statement.

Also, their statements on russia... wtf?

[Dr_Watson]

agreed...have you not been paying attention watson? :P

i read his lit... but it always irked me that he's going to be on TV 24/7 he should say more substance and less fluff. i mean, it's not like he wasn't getting enough air time to fully explain himself. Now that he's running for president and not prom king, i'm much happier with him.

[R00k]

Well, I haven't seen any ads declaring that McCain won tonight's debate yet. lol

Some of the rules for tonight:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/07/liv ... -debate-2/

Tonight’s debate will be in a “town hall” format. Some of the debate guidelines:

–The questions will be culled from a group of 100 to 150 uncommitted likely voters in the audience and another one-third to come via the Internet. Brokaw selects which questions to ask from written queries submitted prior to the debate.

–The Gallup Organization makes sure the questioners reflect the demographic makeup of the nation.

–An audience member isn’t allowed to switch questions and will not be allowed a follow-up either. His or her microphone will be turned off after the question is read and a camera shot will only be shown of the person asking — not reacting.

–The moderator may not ask followups or make comments.

–McCain and Obama will be provided with director’s chairs, but they’re also allowed to stand. They can’t roam past their “designated area” marked on the stage and are not supposed to ask each other direct questions.

Sounds like the format favors McCain, since it's basically just a recipe for stump speeches and talking point recital. Although it seems that Brokaw never agreed to no follow-ups, so the campaigns are expecting them after all. Even so, Brokaw is practically a McCain supporter from what I've been able to tell, so that might not favor Obama either.

I'm afraid this debate is probably going to piss me off. =\

[GONNAFISTYA]

I'm sure somewhere in there the GOP will make sure that "no negative questions" get asked....otherwise they'll sequester the moderator to the "protest zone" 500 metres away.

[GONNAFISTYA]

What a fucking useless debate.

- one guy tells a line of bs and points a finger at the other guy
- the next guy tells a line of bs and points a finger at the other guy
- no discussion allowed
- no challenges allowed
- move on to the next question.

This isn't a debate...this is a ping pong game of talking points.

*switches off and plays ETQW*

[obsidian]

This isn't a debate...this is like an Internet forum flame war.

Fixed. That's right, bitch!

*switches off to own GFY at ETQW*

[R00k]

Honestly, I think Obama took more advantage of it - and came out better - than McCain did, mainly because he used the time to flesh out his plans more to the people who haven't read about them. In most cases he answered the questions to some extent, and he identified with the audience.

McCain wound up looking like a crotchety old man, and a few times in his answers he practically quoted Obama's answer. And he still didn't get into many more specifics. I've learned more about McCain's plan from Obama than I have from him - which one would think is the opposite of what McCain's campaign would want.

[scared?]

jesus...mccain not only got pwned...him pwned himself...

[feedback]

http://debatehub.c-span.org/

If you missed it.

McCain edged it out on substance, Obama edged it out on style. Either way it doesn't change the momentum of the campaign and I think Obama will take it.