Russia in the Ukraine. Conspiracy or not?

[losCHUNK]

as obsidian pointed out and many here dont seem to understand, there is no infrastructure to feed europe gas across the ocean

By many you mean 1 ?

>if

won't happen. Europe buys 25% of its gas off Russia

you Yankees are free to have your own private sanction party though

You can't tell me that Europe likes the idea of being at the mercy of Russia and wouldn't love another viable option. And you certainly can't rule out the possibility of the necessary political manipulation actually happening. The only thing that really negates the whole concept is the United Sates doesn't currently have the ability to export at the potential demand levels.

Yes, it's all a ploy to do something that can't be done. If it was that expensive no one would use gas, it's already expensive enough trying to get it from our own backyards. Burning furniture from Harrods would be a better alternative, even solar fucking power.

Besides, the EU wouldn't have to follow through with sanctions, politicians may not care how much the lower classes spend on fuel costs but they sure as hell wouldn't want to hurt a recovering economy through high pricing. The EU has slowly been weening itself off Russia for cheaper fuel, they may feel that demand could be met within its borders. This isn't the 1st time they pulled a stunt that hampered Europes energy and it's not like the whole of the EU is gonna go Mad Max over night.

Seriously, it would be cheaper pumping shit from Africa and the Middle East than the colonies.

[obsidian]

as obsidian pointed out and many here dont seem to understand, there is no infrastructure to feed europe gas across the ocean

Noticed a lot of blah blah blah debate about sanctions in this thread. Thought whole argument is moot due to a little something called reality. Surprised it took this long for someone else to understand my point. People here are dumb, especially OP who wears a tinfoil cap mistakenly made of wax paper - even if we suspended reality and pretended that it did work, you're still doing it wrong.

[losCHUNK]

Well it's not entirely moot, the sanctions could have a big effect, maybe.

[obsidian]

I'm referring to YGP's conspiracy theory being a moot argument when the U.S. can't viably sell natural gas to people across an ocean, he's so wrong that had it been someone else I would have thought it was an obvious trolling attempt rather than just stupid.

Sanctions probably won't affect Russia very much since they're a large enough country with lots of energy reserves and industry. Countries posing sanctions against Russia would be just as effective shaking their fists angrily, it would be symbolic, but not much effect in practicality.

[losCHUNK]

Aye, an effect on the EU though, 25% of gas supplies come from Russia which creates a decent shortfall in the eurozone.

He has a point that the EU has to make up a shortfall in supply/demand from somewhere, this will likely lead to higher pricing and from what I've been reading the EU are going to go through with it, I'm hoping they won't and it's all a bluff because of what you said.

[YourGrandpa]

Noticed a lot of blah blah blah debate about sanctions in this thread. Thought whole argument is moot due to a little something called reality. Surprised it took this long for someone else to understand my point. People here are dumb, especially OP who wears a tinfoil cap mistakenly made of wax paper - even if we suspended reality and pretended that it did work, you're still doing it wrong.

I'm referring to YGP's conspiracy theory being a moot argument when the U.S. can't viably sell natural gas to people across an ocean, he's so wrong that had it been someone else I would have thought it was an obvious trolling attempt rather than just stupid.

Sanctions probably won't affect Russia very much since they're a large enough country with lots of energy reserves and industry. Countries posing sanctions against Russia would be just as effective shaking their fists angrily, it would be symbolic, but not much effect in practicality.

I like how you enraged nerds looking for the slightest angle in a conversation come to these insane conclusions and then berate them like they were the other person's opinion. Pathetic..

To start, the title of the thread says "conspiracy or not?". That question is posed for your consideration and completely nullifies the notion that this is somehow my belief. But I know your pathetic existence demands that you call me dumb and pretend I have a tinfoil cap mind set. Secondly, my point isn't moot. Russia could be sanctioned and that could drive up the cost of natural gas in Europe. Those cost could get to a point where it may become economical for the U.S. to export to Europe. And even though the U.S. can't currently meet the demand, that doesn't mean more export rights wouldn't be given to U.S. based companies and more export facilities couldn't be built in a relatively short period of time.

Let's speculate further. Russia is sanctioned, the price of natural gas goes up, the U.S. builds more export facilities and becomes an established supplier. Then Russia complies, the sanctions are lifted and they resume providing natural gas to Europe. Do you think the prices would go back to where they were before? I would bet they don't. Russia would certainly take note of the current price being paid and exploit it to the fullest. Ultimately a win/win for everyone but the consumer.

Again, just a thought. Fuck off otherwise.

[Κracus]

Russia doesn't want to lose the crimean port. It's pretty much the main reason why they're doing this as their lease on the port is set to expire in 2015.

With the previous Ukrainian gov would have been friendly with Russia but with that option out the only remaining option is invading.

[scared?]

Noticed a lot of blah blah blah debate about sanctions in this thread. Thought whole argument is moot due to a little something called reality. Surprised it took this long for someone else to understand my point. People here are dumb, especially OP who wears a tinfoil cap mistakenly made of wax paper - even if we suspended reality and pretended that it did work, you're still doing it wrong.

I'm referring to YGP's conspiracy theory being a moot argument when the U.S. can't viably sell natural gas to people across an ocean, he's so wrong that had it been someone else I would have thought it was an obvious trolling attempt rather than just stupid.

Sanctions probably won't affect Russia very much since they're a large enough country with lots of energy reserves and industry. Countries posing sanctions against Russia would be just as effective shaking their fists angrily, it would be symbolic, but not much effect in practicality.

I like how you enraged nerds looking for the slightest angle in a conversation come to these insane conclusions and then berate them like they were the other person's opinion. Pathetic..

To start, the title of the thread says "conspiracy or not?". That question is posed for your consideration and completely nullifies the notion that this is somehow my belief. But I know your pathetic existence demands that you call me dumb and pretend I have a tinfoil cap mind set. Secondly, my point isn't moot. Russia could be sanctioned and that could drive up the cost of natural gas in Europe. Those cost could get to a point where it may become economical for the U.S. to export to Europe. And even though the U.S. can't currently meet the demand, that doesn't mean more export rights wouldn't be given to U.S. based companies and more export facilities couldn't be built in a relatively short period of time.

Let's speculate further. Russia is sanctioned, the price of natural gas goes up, the U.S. builds more export facilities and becomes an established supplier. Then Russia complies, the sanctions are lifted and they resume providing natural gas to Europe. Do you think the prices would go back to where they were before? I would bet they don't. Russia would certainly take note of the current price being paid and exploit it to the fullest. Ultimately a win/win for everyone but the consumer.

Again, just a thought. Fuck off otherwise.

Also... He's black ...

[losCHUNK]

Noticed a lot of blah blah blah debate about sanctions in this thread. Thought whole argument is moot due to a little something called reality. Surprised it took this long for someone else to understand my point. People here are dumb, especially OP who wears a tinfoil cap mistakenly made of wax paper - even if we suspended reality and pretended that it did work, you're still doing it wrong.

I'm referring to YGP's conspiracy theory being a moot argument when the U.S. can't viably sell natural gas to people across an ocean, he's so wrong that had it been someone else I would have thought it was an obvious trolling attempt rather than just stupid.

Sanctions probably won't affect Russia very much since they're a large enough country with lots of energy reserves and industry. Countries posing sanctions against Russia would be just as effective shaking their fists angrily, it would be symbolic, but not much effect in practicality.

I like how you enraged nerds looking for the slightest angle in a conversation come to these insane conclusions and then berate them like they were the other person's opinion. Pathetic..

To start, the title of the thread says "conspiracy or not?". That question is posed for your consideration and completely nullifies the notion that this is somehow my belief. But I know your pathetic existence demands that you call me dumb and pretend I have a tinfoil cap mind set. Secondly, my point isn't moot. Russia could be sanctioned and that could drive up the cost of natural gas in Europe. Those cost could get to a point where it may become economical for the U.S. to export to Europe. And even though the U.S. can't currently meet the demand, that doesn't mean more export rights wouldn't be given to U.S. based companies and more export facilities couldn't be built in a relatively short period of time.

Let's speculate further. Russia is sanctioned, the price of natural gas goes up, the U.S. builds more export facilities and becomes an established supplier. Then Russia complies, the sanctions are lifted and they resume providing natural gas to Europe. Do you think the prices would go back to where they were before? I would bet they don't. Russia would certainly take note of the current price being paid and exploit it to the fullest. Ultimately a win/win for everyone but the consumer.

Again, just a thought. Fuck off otherwise.

It was an open question that you was asking and even though you deny the conspiracy that only you mentioned you still think that the US gas market could stand a chance in Europe otherwise what would be the point in mentioning it again and again and... That's why you are thick as shit.

Russia doesn't want to lose the crimean port. It's pretty much the main reason why they're doing this as their lease on the port is set to expire in 2015.

With the previous Ukrainian gov would have been friendly with Russia but with that option out the only remaining option is invading.

Christ in a GTI, you made sense

[Κracus]

I think the real problem is that Putin thinks this is still 1960 and the Ukraine is still part of the USSR.

I think Russia is good at making themselves look threatening but in a real war I think they're going to get their asses handed to them.

I also think they should be kicked out of the UN for invading a country.

[Ryoki]

Yeah, like the US was when they invaded ... oh, wait.

[Κracus]

Apples and oranges.

[Ryoki]

But how could you possibly know which invasion i was going to refer to? There have been so many!

[Κracus]

I'm not going to disagree with you that the US needs to stop meddling in other nations affairs.

In fact you know... if you really dissect what Russia is doing vs what the US has done and you're actually correct. I guess the US just has better PR.

[scared?]

The Ukraine is the cradle of Russia... The west needs to get over it...

[Captain]

I think the real problem is that Putin thinks this is still 1960 and the Ukraine is still part of the USSR.

I think Russia is good at making themselves look threatening but in a real war I think they're going to get their asses handed to them.

I also think they should be kicked out of the UN for invading a country.

Holy shit you're fucking stupid

[obsidian]

Those cost could get to a point where it may become economical for the U.S. to export to Europe.

You've ignored, or more likely too stupid to understand my point. How exactly do you think the U.S. should ship natural gas to Europe... which is across an ocean? Fill up a bunch of balloons and delivered by a clown? A new job for you where you won't be 6th in charge out of 9?

[Κracus]

Well you know.... tankers do exist.

[Captain]

Holy shit you're fucking stupid

[seremtan]

I also think they should be kicked out of the UN for invading a country.

yeah, let's put it to a security council vote

oh wait...

[Doombrain]

Well you know.... tankers do exist.

Because we want the surcharge added on from the shipping logistics, don't we.

[losCHUNK]

I also think they should be kicked out of the UN for invading a country.

yeah, let's put it to a security council vote

oh wait...

[YourGrandpa]

You've ignored, or more likely too stupid to understand my point. How exactly do you think the U.S. should ship natural gas to Europe... which is across an ocean? Fill up a bunch of balloons and delivered by a clown? A new job for you where you won't be 6th in charge out of 9?

Hey ignorantly arguing upset nerd.



Neat, huh?

[YourGrandpa]

Because we want the surcharge added on from the shipping logistics, don't we.

Not having a choice may negate what you want to do.

[dubz]

not many tankers like that exist and even if they would exist, it would be impossible to meet the demand of several country's.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_expc_s1_a.htm

look at the numbers on that site and see how things work in reality.