Quake3World

Well, it's hitting Europe pretty hard now. Yesterday Fortis had to be bailed out, today Daxia.

I did the math: every dutcho ends up paying around 250 euro's for the Fortis bailout alone, goddamnit. Fuck these people, really, fuck them. Two months ago they bought ABN Amro for 24 billion euro's, yesterday they sold it for 10. That's a bad fucking business decision, let the bastards crash and burn for it... but no, today the minister of finance promises (yes, with breathtaking irrisponsibility he actually promised) to bail out any other bank that finds itself in trouble. What.the.fuck.

andyman wrote:They will try to pass another one I bet

CALLED IT

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/ap_ ... l_meltdown

Quick rundown: bill

I say let it ride. Let the econony right itself. Fuck spending $700 billion on big business's mistakes. It's not the tax payers fault the lending institutions don't know how to lend money. What's to say they turn around and do the same shit again? Fuck'em. I'll take my hit in the stock market, I'll stay in my home until real estate turns around and I'll live without charging/borrowing money if I have to.

Honestly, I am starting to lean toward letting it ride myself.

Because the more I think about it, the more it seems that any other way we handle this - either by forking cash over to Wall Street, or by helping out people with mortgage problems - the taxpayer still loses.

That doesn't sound like much of a plan to me.

the bail out...whatever its form, is just to transfer more wealth to the rich before everything goes to shit...it will never work...

Bill O'Reilly at war with other right-wing shock jocks?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/3 ... er-earned/

lol

Ryoki wrote:Well, it's hitting Europe pretty hard now. Yesterday Fortis had to be bailed out, today Daxia.

I did the math: every dutcho ends up paying around 250 euro's for the Fortis bailout alone, goddamnit. Fuck these people, really, fuck them.

Way to quote the misinformed media there. The 4 billion euro stock buyout is financed by government bonds, so at this moment it is costing no tax money. On top of that, the stocks they bought are not worthless. In fact, once everything settles down and Fortis gets its act together they may even make some money on them.

The banks seem to be losing either way. A foreclosure costs the institution a shitload up front, to start with. But some foreclosures are becoming a maintenance fee, as well.. Not just for the time on market (electricity, upkeep, etc. for 1 year+). We were looking at foreclosures as investment property, and the majority of the 30-some-odd houses we viewed had been obviously vandalized (holes in walls, broken windows, piss on carpets) by the previous tenants, or maybe just wandering vandals. A handful of them had been stripped of everything. I mean, light fixtures gone, doors removed, the inside water main had been shut off and the copper PIPES had been cut out of the basement. So, right away the bank takes a $20K hit off the top... it's like some kind of rogue society has replaced the one living in my state without me noticing. I asked the broker if the banks went after the jokers who did this sort of thing, and he said not in any of his properties.

tnf wrote:Why are you only running 8800 gtx's.

i was wondering that myself

if this is horka's idea of hot shit, his "styling" is probably kerb-crawling, his 2 hot beotches are probably inflatable, and his totally super hot crib is a living space adjacent in a vertically downward relationship to that of his parents

Underpants? wrote:The banks seem to be losing either way. A foreclosure costs the institution a shitload up front, to start with. But some foreclosures are becoming a maintenance fee, as well.. Not just for the time on market (electricity, upkeep, etc. for 1 year+). We were looking at foreclosures as investment property, and the majority of the 30-some-odd houses we viewed had been obviously vandalized (holes in walls, broken windows, piss on carpets) by the previous tenants, or maybe just wandering vandals. A handful of them had been stripped of everything. I mean, light fixtures gone, doors removed, the inside water main had been shut off and the copper PIPES had been cut out of the basement. So, right away the bank takes a $20K hit off the top... it's like some kind of rogue society has replaced the one living in my state without me noticing. I asked the broker if the banks went after the jokers who did this sort of thing, and he said not in any of his properties.

That's what's been happening recently, in a lot of places, due to people feeling like they got screwed by the bank.

The problem I'm wrestling with - as far as 'letting it ride' - is that even if we do that, the company's executives are still millionaires, our economy tanks, and we still get the shaft.

It seems like the taxpayer is going to take the hit in this no matter what. Which means that at this point it's all about mitigating our own risks in this cluster.

Corporate lobbyists, trickle-down economics and deregulation have fucked us hard, coming and going. It's also fucked the banks.

It's hard for me to understand how anyone can still support deregulation in the financial sector after this - but most of the Republicans who voted against the bailout bill support an alternate plan, that calls for more deregulation and more tax cuts at the top, to "stimulate" the economy.

r3t wrote:Way to quote the misinformed media there. The 4 billion euro stock buyout is financed by government bonds, so at this moment it is costing no tax money. On top of that, the stocks they bought are not worthless. In fact, once everything settles down and Fortis gets its act together they may even make some money on them.

Aha, so they buy something for free and then sell it back for a profit. Yes, my confidence in Fortis is entirely restored.

seremtan wrote:

tnf wrote:Why are you only running 8800 gtx's.

if this is horka's idea of hot shit, his "styling" is probably kerb-crawling, his 2 hot beotches are probably inflatable, and his totally super hot crib is a living space adjacent in a vertically downward relationship to that of his parents

ha.

tnf wrote:I wonder if Hannity is still sticking by his "the lie that the economy is in dire straits is just a democratic talking point."

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/09/30/19_ ... e_2004.php

Hannity launched into what I am sure is a distortion-filled account of the causes for the crisis that included one of his latest fave smears, calling former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, “economic advisor” to Barack Obama (this has been debunked). Hannity ended his saga with a triumphant, “We were warned about (the credit crisis) by the Republicans in 2004 and now the Democrats blame the Republicans!”

More in link.

Seems up is down and black is white.

Bill O'Reilly tells his radio audience that conservative ideologues who oppose the bailout and blame this on liberals or on Clinton are complete idiots, because Clinton's been out of office for 8 years - and that it's Bush's fault. ( )

And here McCain just looks completely blindsided by Fox News commentators when they compliment Obama's FDIC statement today, cut to McCain, and say "Ball's in your court."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/3 ... -bail-out/

I don't see how anyone can still have a shred of confidence in his ticket.

R00k wrote:Seems up is down and black is white.

Bill O'Reilly tells his radio audience that conservative ideologues who oppose the bailout and blame this on liberals or on Clinton are complete idiots, because Clinton's been out of office for 8 years - and that it's Bush's fault. ( )

And here McCain just looks completely blindsided by Fox News commentators when they compliment Obama's FDIC statement today, cut to McCain, and say "Ball's in your court."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/3 ... -bail-out/

I don't see how anyone can still have a shred of confidence in his ticket.

And what they both have in common the most is that they are paid a LOT of money to say what they are told to say.. after all, that's their job


speaking of which, started my new job monday

andyman wrote:

andyman wrote:They will try to pass another one I bet

CALLED IT

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/ap_ ... l_meltdown

Same bill with sugar on top and a cherry too, to attract more votes

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_ ... l_meltdown

The Senate measure will graft the bailout language to a tax bill it approved last week, on a 93-2 vote. It includes: a provision to prevent more than 20 million middle-class taxpayers from feeling the bite of the alternative minimum tax, $8 billion in tax relief for those hit by natural disasters in the Midwest, Texas and Louisiana and some $78 billion in renewable energy incentives and extensions of expiring tax breaks.

That all sounds okay, except the vague mention of "extensions of expiring tax breaks." I hope those aren't Bush's tax cuts that were set to expire.

R00k wrote:

Underpants? wrote:The banks seem to be losing either way. A foreclosure costs the institution a shitload up front, to start with. But some foreclosures are becoming a maintenance fee, as well.. Not just for the time on market (electricity, upkeep, etc. for 1 year+). We were looking at foreclosures as investment property, and the majority of the 30-some-odd houses we viewed had been obviously vandalized (holes in walls, broken windows, piss on carpets) by the previous tenants, or maybe just wandering vandals. A handful of them had been stripped of everything. I mean, light fixtures gone, doors removed, the inside water main had been shut off and the copper PIPES had been cut out of the basement. So, right away the bank takes a $20K hit off the top... it's like some kind of rogue society has replaced the one living in my state without me noticing. I asked the broker if the banks went after the jokers who did this sort of thing, and he said not in any of his properties.

That's what's been happening recently, in a lot of places, due to people feeling like they got screwed by the bank.

The problem I'm wrestling with - as far as 'letting it ride' - is that even if we do that, the company's executives are still millionaires, our economy tanks, and we still get the shaft.

It seems like the taxpayer is going to take the hit in this no matter what. Which means that at this point it's all about mitigating our own risks in this cluster.

Corporate lobbyists, trickle-down economics and deregulation have fucked us hard, coming and going. It's also fucked the banks.

It's hard for me to understand how anyone can still support deregulation in the financial sector after this - but most of the Republicans who voted against the bailout bill support an alternate plan, that calls for more deregulation and more tax cuts at the top, to "stimulate" the economy.

The thing is that (ignorant) people totally were getting screwed. Regulation is in place now for the brokers. Something like it it in place when predatory lending and shady brokers were shafting the inexperienced or just plain stupid and lazy may well have prevented the current crisis and whatever further fallout will come of it. It may be another 10 years or more before we know how bad this whole ordeal really is.

Ryoki wrote:

r3t wrote:Way to quote the misinformed media there. The 4 billion euro stock buyout is financed by government bonds, so at this moment it is costing no tax money. On top of that, the stocks they bought are not worthless. In fact, once everything settles down and Fortis gets its act together they may even make some money on them.

Aha, so they buy something for free and then sell it back for a profit. Yes, my confidence in Fortis is entirely restored.

economics 101

Yeah, this stuff is completely alien to me, i should probably shut up. But allow me to make a few more idiotic statements before i do:

I don't even understand the concept of goverment bonds or why anyone would consider it worth anything. How nonexistant money can finance a 4 billion euro bailout is totally beyond me. How said bailout is supposed to restore my trust in that particular company is even more beyond me. It seems to me that arcane financial tricks like this is what caused this mess in the first place.

A government bond is simply a loan to the government. You can buy a bond, and with that you basically lend your money to the state, over which you receive interest. Because a state is generally regarded as a very trustworthy financial institution, bonds are seen as very low-risk.
Now, of course the state has to pay the money it has lend in this way back at some point in time, but that is where my second point comes in. The Fortis stock will probably increase in value over time (which, in fact, it is already doing: there has been a 20% increase in price since the low point last monday), and that measn that those stocks can be sold for a profit.

Dave Ramsey is promoting what he calls The Common Sense Plan (he didn't write it himself):

http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/fed_bailo ... 0928.htmlc

For the most part it includes what I would want in a package. There are a couple of things I disagree with (no capital gains tax at all, for one), but I would support most of it.

edit: I'm talking about the plan in the PDF, btw -- not the praying part.

Of course the companies would never buy it, because of the first section.

if the bill doesn't pass expect this to happen all over america...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=060_1222849853