The Bailout Package Just Failed in the House

[R00k]

Watching it on CSPAN.
Yeas: 203 (Dems:138; Reps:65)
Nays: 226 (Dems:95; Reps:133)

[R00k]

It looks like the vote tallies are still changing, even though there is no time left on the vote.

Final was 205-228 against, I believe.

[R00k]

The stock market is tanking pretty badly right now too. The DOW is down nearly 600 the last I checked.

[Fender]

Good... I think. Sorta.
Down about 500 now, "only" 4%.

[Κracus]

So what's going to happen anyway? I'm wondering what the impact to individuals and the US is going to be. I'm guessing it's effects are going to be felt by everyone not just US taxpayers.

[R00k]

Good... I think. Sorta.
Down about 500 now, "only" 4%.

What do you think the best response to the situation would be (just curious)? Do you support helping out citizens more, instead of Wall Street? Or do you lean more toward letting the banks take their lumps for risk-taking, and letting the market go through a painful self-correction?

edit: My personal problem with this whole package is that it seemingly still does not do anything to keep this from just happening again. It strikes me as a Dutchboy's thumb in the hole and nothing more. But I still feel like action needs to be taken in some way.

[R00k]

So what's going to happen anyway? I'm wondering what the impact to individuals and the US is going to be. I'm guessing it's effects are going to be felt by everyone not just US taxpayers.

That's the big question. Warren Buffett's response to that question today was apparently "God help us," or something along those lines.

[scared?]

this is good news...this bail out is nothing but trouble...

[Transat]

Someone divided by zero.

[Underpants?]

the bailout package was bullshit, but there is some real shit headed our (US folks) way right now. :serious and worry:

[andyman]

They will try to pass another one I bet

[CaseDogg]

They will try to pass another one I bet

yeah but they can't yet cuz you jews are celebrating some jew holiday.

[andyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5kymM9n ... ture=email

[Fender]

Good... I think. Sorta.
Down about 500 now, "only" 4%.

What do you think the best response to the situation would be (just curious)? Do you support helping out citizens more, instead of Wall Street? Or do you lean more toward letting the banks take their lumps for risk-taking, and letting the market go through a painful self-correction?

edit: My personal problem with this whole package is that it seemingly still does not do anything to keep this from just happening again. It strikes me as a Dutchboy's thumb in the hole and nothing more. But I still feel like action needs to be taken in some way.

More just let it ride, I guess. I hate the "we have to do something" attitude. I much prefer the saying from the medical world, "first, do no harm." IMO, we didn't need to bail out the airlines post 9/11, nor really anything else. We're just creating money out of thin air, which is what got us in to the problem in the first place.

[Κracus]

Why is it always thin air? Why not just air? What qualifies air as being thin as opposed to regular air?

[CaseDogg]

altitude?

[Κracus]

I'm guessing the number of cheesburgers the air consumed.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Someone divided by zero.

Probably a fuckin programmer.

[GONNAFISTYA]

More just let it ride, I guess. I hate the "we have to do something" attitude. I much prefer the saying from the medical world, "first, do no harm." IMO, we didn't need to bail out the airlines post 9/11, nor really anything else. We're just creating money out of thin air, which is what got us in to the problem in the first place.

Exactly. While it may be nerve-wracking to think of the consequences (will I lose my job? can I get a loan?) it's best to think of one fact and one fact only: Any idea that George W. Bush thinks is a good idea is a bad idea. Nuff said.

I simply do not believe the doomsday scenarios they claim will happen.

Fuck em. Let em fail like any other business. If what they do is so important someone else will come along and provide it....that's what the market does. As far as I'm concerned the market has spoken...and it has nothing nice to say.

[Mogul]

So what's going to happen anyway? I'm wondering what the impact to individuals and the US is going to be. I'm guessing it's effects are going to be felt by everyone not just US taxpayers.

I am torn on this issue. While my baseline sense of morality tells me that bailing out crooks is the wrong thing to do, I will definitely be personally, negatively affected if no action is taken and these banks continue to go under. When your business is all about getting people loans so they can work with you, it's very, very bad news to think that there will be even fewer loans that can be approved as the crisis worsens.

This has me pretty worried, honestly.

EDIT: On the other hand, I don't mean to be fear-mongering. I do hope something works out. The news today is bittersweet though. Leaning toward the bitter part.

[GONNAFISTYA]

If the bailout eventually passes I say we start a pool. We try to guesstimate how much of that $1 trillion will simply disappear...given away to friends, earmarked as gravy for useless projects/businesses, stolen by insiders or overbilled for services rendered in this cleanup.

How much do you think will disappear?

When the dust settles, I say at least $50 billion will eventually be unaccounted for. My instincts tell me it'll be over $100 billion but I'll try to be "conservative" in my estimates...since there's supposed to be "oversight".

It'll be a field day for the greedy, crooked and connected....just watch.

[feedback]

This is terrible, I owe my previous employer $2600 due to them overpaying me without me noticing, but because there's a shortage of $ in the market (US banks are holding onto their money for dear life) the $ is actually strengthening in exchange every day. 3 months ago it was 981 Won to 1 USD, now it's 1180 Won to 1 USD and climbing. Fucking gay, I hope the american economy collapses and the dollar becomes the peso.

[tnf]

I see it two ways - one, the idea of the bailout just pisses me off because this was something that you could see coming - loans being made to, and taken by, people who had absolutely no business getting them - people who were banking on their home's value increasing and leveraging that increased equity to their advantage, people who were one paycheck away from completely losing everything they owned in a lifestyle funded entirely by debt (sort of like the government), and a system who was all too willing to take advantage of this (all the republican deregulation didn't help)...BUT...one the other hand, I see what the crisis is doing to the retirement of my parents who had money tied up in the market (told them to get their shit out last year since they were approaching retirement age and couldn't afford a huge crash at this point...but my dad's financial advisor told him to keep it in). If the bailout deal would stabilize the markets then I almost think its the lesser of two evils...who knows though?

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol

Is there anyone surprised at this?

Bush Sidesteps Congress? $630 Billion To Be Pumped Into Economy Despite House Bailout Rejection

The Federal Reserve will pump an additional $630 billion into the global financial system, flooding banks with cash to alleviate the worst banking crisis since the Great Depression.

Any idea that George W. Bush thinks is a good idea is a bad idea. Nuff said.

[ctrlpuke]

I was concerned that this would happen, but it goes to show that all God-fearing Americans should be well prepared.
My husband and I have a house that's completely paid for, 800 pounds of food, two rifles with 150 rounds between the two, and 50 gallons of water. In addition, we have taken our sons, 11 and 13, out of public school indefinitely to home school as well as to assist the neighborhood watch during the night.
In our neighborhood we have people reading about dry farming, steel construction, and medicine - alternative and traditional.
We have all agreed to help any strangers in time of need, as long as they give up their personal resources to aid our small Nevadan community.

Currently my sons and I are keeping on eye on the news while my husband is with the other men in the neighborhood war room coming up with a plan of defense.