q3dmp11 - tech edge

[phantazm11]

Now we're talking. Looking freaking awesome fkd!

[sock]

It looks like you need some sort of weight or something on the other side of that crane to counteract the weight of the crane arm and load..

Your work looks amazing and the depth of detail is fantastic, especially the new bay window and loading bay. I would strongly suggest you photo source a crane for the architectural shape (like obsidian mentioned) so you can get the right balance. I am not suggesting go total realism, but just gently hint it and the viewer/player will fill in the rest of the gaps for you.

[fKd]

will do, working on it now

[fKd]

haha much better

[Hipshot]

Should I download the latest or is there a new version coming rather soon? Would like to give feedback that isn't already fixed =)

[fKd]

new version coming soon

[fKd]

ding ding update. ok have at it r_speeds are high... its the nature of the level, i've sure most of you have nice shiny computers.. god im sick of working on a lap top lol

[Inition]

Wow, I love it! I just did a bot match, didn't see any huge errors. I love the colors and brushwork. The stairs & walls = genius.

[Mr dk]

Holy crap! Impressive stuff.
Couple of little observations:
Firstly I have missing textures, the bevel ceiling around the rail gun area.

Secondly, I know this has been said before, the dripping water. It's a bit regulary and linear. May be use particles? I know Q3 doesn't support them, but it can be faked, I've done it with bubbles and snow flakes before. Just might be able to get some more variation in the drips. Some ripples as the drips hit would be cool too.

If you spectate in the GL room you can get just high enough to see the caulked top of the area that hosts the GL.

I know this would probably screw up the playability of the map, but a control panel where you could move something on the crane would be really nice

Frame rate for me was pretty good. At worst around the 200 mark. With that much detail r_speeds are always going to be an issue I guess, if it was me I wouldn't worry about it.

Finally...just what a brilliant effort, hugely impressive.

[fKd]

thanks so much i'll fix up the clip and look into particles for the drips. cheers for the kind words

[fKd]

fixed

http://www.filefront.com/14177391/q3dmp11.zip

[obsidian]

$NulL's new Particle Studio:

http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37893

[Mr dk]

Thats the one! Forgot what it was called.

[sock]

fixed http://www.filefront.com/14177391/q3dmp11.zip

I tried to download this and the pk3 was corrupt, will have to try again tomorrow.

[fKd]

very odd.. i just d/l'ed the map and it was fine... ummmm anyone else got this problem?

[monaster]

Nope, works fine for me, although I too had a problem a few hours ago loading the website, but at a second attempt about 2 hours later it worked without any problems. Can now open the pk3, look at all the stuff inside, just didn't test it ingame.

[nitin77]

this looks very nice fkd.

[sock]

Ok, no worries, got a good zip file on the 3rd try. The map visually looks amazing but the gameplay is still strange and the ladders feel awkward especially the fact you fly up them so quick. (Personally I dont like them but others may think they are good) I like the new top area where the GL use to be and the gorgeous angled glass window next to the long JP. (I recommend you phong the glass, it has seams in the middle where you have angled designs) The extra route to the corner with the Medikit is bad because it blocks the lower ramp jump route, I recommend you try this map in CPMA at least to see where you can add/improve routes, especially double/ramp jumps.

I still don't get how you are lighting this map, there is still a lot shader light fixtures all over the place, some of the walls feel really crowded. Are you using any point/spot lights at all? I don't get the feeling of any 'hot' light anywhere, the lighting mostly feels uniform and flat. One area which I do feel is good is the new route to the RG, its darker, moody, has nice shadows on the walls and not saturated with many light sources. Maybe cut back on the shader lights and try spot lighting certain areas?

[crazy idea] The big room with the central platform and GL in the middle feels like it should be a rocket, maybe with a grate ramp to it instead of a solid walkway. Add wires to open panels on the side of the rocket, have huge cones on the bottom of the rocket with a pit below for the exhaust to go. Have some smoke particles coming down from the cones, like the rocket is ready to launch or something. The inside could be where the cockpit is (vertical design) and have vents or doors on either side so multiple routes in.[/crazy idea]

You seriously need to fix the readme file, lots of people will check the file and it is full of errors, like for example 'Sock : Rock Texture', what rock textures!?! I know its annoying to keep the file up to date, especially if you release alot of beta maps but you got to fix it, otherwise people wonder if it is the most recent version or not.

[Hipshot]

Fkd, as I see it you have huge problems with the clipping. You should seriously do something about it, honestly, it's like playing Unreal 2003/2004/3 - to much detail that isn't optimized for a smooth gameflow. I was going to make a bunch of screens as with your last level, but it is just too much to screen every clipping error.

You know, No one's mad or anything since before, so you don't have to apologize for anything in the readme.

[fKd]

how about ppl just dont run into walls and shit? ack clipping ack i did not think it was that bad... oh well. on it

[Hipshot]

Haha, well, the quality difference of a map that is clipped good and bad is pretty obvious =) It has all to do with the game flow, if this would have been a map for swat or raven shield I would not have bothered.

And, if you think about this from the beginning then it's easier. I bet it will be a pain in the ass to replace all the small lights with .ase versions now, or make passable brush based versions.

If you spend a couple days extra on just these things that isn't "visible" in the same way you will increase the level quality a lot.

[Pat Howard]

Hello again fKd,

I've been following this map for some time now and, despite being really impressed, I've been pretty quiet around the forums. I guess the reason for this is so many people have already suggested so much that I feel like I'd just be contributing more "noise".

IDK about you, but something strikes me as wrong when a map goes through this many stages. I think the problem here is this map's texturing and lighting is too inconsistent for anyone to offer specific suggestions that do anything more than refine one of this maps many mini-themes. While these suggestions make individual areas more unique and interesting, they also work against you, pulling the map apart more and more until someone finally suggests a complete thematic overhaul and you feel like you're running in circles.

I think the source of this problem is how many different colors you are using. You've got all different colored clean metals everywhere PLUS some dark gritty ones too. Some rooms in the map have all white lights, others all red, and sometimes even all green. Factor in the colored glass and busy shaders and you can see how confusing everything is when taken in at once. Some areas even have their own individual atmospheres. The rail gun section, (even though it looks amazing) feels like it's part of a completely different map. I'm not knocking the quality of your work here, just the lack of focus.

I'd love to know how the development process of this map has felt on your end. It seems like it has been pretty hectic to me and that's what inspired this post. Correct me if you don't think what I'm saying is true, because I hate to be so negative. But if you do think what I'm saying has some value than my advice to you is to stop adding and simplify. I wouldn't delete any of the brushwork - it's all great, but I would probably halve the amount of textures you're using. Try to stick with fewer colors and materials. Lose the colder, darker metals because they look totally out of place next to the warmer more colorful ones. Also get rid of some of the flashy shaders that dominate the scene. Also, stick with one or maybe two different lights. Finally, try to light the whole map in a similar fashion. I have found that having a system is absolutely key when lighting a map. Aftwerwards you can mess with light values in the areas you want to be lighter/darker.

Let me know what you think. As the king of never finishing anything I always hate to see other mappers spend their whole lives in the beta section.
-Pat

[fKd]

i dont think there is anything wrong with a long build time. and using the community for feedback and advice is key imho to developing a better level and better building methods. also helps to develop a tougher skin. ( i just hope they dont get sick of me lol )

i like the lighting colour variation. it helps to generate multiple atmospheres.
but i am working on making it more simple by using less lights but with more power.. like from 10k lights to 20. plus im gonna do more stylistic light angles to get the detail popping more.
flashy shaders? what? i was thinking this map was quite simple of the shaders front...

but anyway. im gonna try look at this level from a different perspective.. wheres my wine

ps good to see ya over here

[v1l3]

This map is pretty Hardcore man..it puts alot of maps to shame, very nice! ..though it is officially the first Q3 map that is unplayable on my system with r_speeds and all, but with all of the detail how could it not be. I have a 3500+ AMD Athlon..to beat anyone to that question. It's nice to see great Q3A maps being made, LONG LIVE Q3A!!! Keep it up man

[maz0r]

[...]..though it is officially the first Q3 map that is unplayable on my system with r_speeds and all[...]

You havent played Hipshot's Industrial Techmap, have you?

Btw it's very nice how this place breathens again. Havent seen such a frequented beta thread for a long time. Keep up the good work, fkd. Will try to check your map asap, no access to quake and little spare time barred me from doing it earlier.