Quake3World

Looks good. I think I'm gonna have a little 1on1 session with a friend on this map. The latest version would be greatly appreciated if you're feeling generous enough to pack it up.

Looks good. I think I'm gonna have a little 1on1 session with a friend on this map. The latest version would be greatly appreciated if you're feeling generous enough to pack it up.

Hey thanks for you kind words, mates.

Yes Pat, I would really like to send you the latest version, regarding getting more gameplay feedback .
But I'm not at home tonight, so I can send you an E-Mail with the latest version only tomorrow.
Just send me a PM with your address.

Good night together.

That was weird I don't know why that posted twice. I sent you a PM, check your inbox.

Thanks,
-pat

Well, skybox+rain+current lightning, yes, I'm starting to like it . Don't mess with mails/pms just post last release here .

I didn't any massive structural changes and there are still some things to do for a next beta release.
So please stand by, should have a new beta candidate the next few days...


P.S. I'm glad you're starting to like it

Hey Sumatra,

Been a while ..... I rarely get time to play these days but I couldn't resist downloading this one (and a couple of the others on here ... if I get time I'll post feedback on them too l8r ... sorry folks).

Pre-cursor .. feedback is my own opinion .. take what you will from it ... ignore what you don't like ... even if it's all of it... after all it's your map.. I'm just along for the free ride so to speak

Anyways Beta 8 feedback. I like some of the stuff you've done here but the flow of the map breaks down for me when moving in an anti-clockwise direction, particularly when going from RA area to LG to the YA. I uploaded a quick and dirty youtube video here:- p3t7.avi (sorry for the piccy quality). Notice how I slow down to a run when I reach the top of the stairs from the RA area and really have to aim my positioning to get the LG to YA jump going on. (This is standard VQ3 btw). I'm not sure if you can really do much about it at this stage .. but it just doesn't flow like your other maps. Course that's just my opinion.

Also I think I'd rather have the exit to the YA teleporter actually throw me out smack bang on top of the YA facing the way I'm headed in the video. I think it would flow better that way.

There's a lotta health down by that there mega. Maybe take some of it away.

New beta (screenshot feedback).

I like the fact that you are going to re-include the PG but not to the extent of losing the SG...looking at the load layout you created in your post 26th Jul, where you include a second YA and the RL in the RG pit, I'd be inclined to lose the second YA to the SG. Given the size of the map I think the current YA & MH vs RA load out works just fine.

Looking forward to seeing how this one progresses.

Ian
AKA FoRa.

How the hell did you add rain? Download link please?

How hard could it be, just make some lines and add tcmod scroll to it.

Or use particles and deformVertexes move. Either way, shaders are required.

Hey.

OK. So I played a few games with a friend. We definitely had fun, especially in the two tele-to-armor areas. It's funny how hard it is to actually hit a guy as he is trying to go for that RA (the funky weapon clipping on the RA platform doesn't help either).

I had one big problem that I need to mention. As we played on it became apparent to me that this map consists almost entirely of close range battles. I wouldn't say it feels cramped, just that there really isn't much line of sight anywhere except by the RG, and you don't really get to camp there too often because of all the other armors in the map.

I think what this map needs is not to be scaled in the traditional sense of the word, but instead only the space between forms needs to be expanded. I feel this way especially in the MH room. There's a big difference between proper scale in terms of path and door sizes and scale in terms of playing spaces. This is something I'm only just starting to become conscious of as I continue to tinker with the scale a layout I'm currently working on.

You don't know it of course, but your project and the one I'm working on over here have been influencing each other in all kinds of strange ways . I initially took interest in your layout because the 1MH, 1RA, 2YA setup was something I wanted in mine, but now they seem to be simultaneously growing into many of the same problems as well. Very interesting indeed .

I have other stuff for you, but it's not as significant as the main point above. Please let me know what you think of this before I go on.
-pat

Ahh, some healthy feedback on the way.

I must say that I had a silent concern regarding the issues you mentioned all the time in my mind. I think I totally get what you mean.
Until now the creation process was a fight between keeping the map compact and the main items reachable in a specific time AND don't make it feel cramped and too small/boring.

But I think I have a proper approach to improve those problems. I'll have a look at some spots and by expanding those create fighting areas for the competitors to breath. For example I try to expand the area @ RA, @ RL/LG-jumppad and second YA @ RG without heavy losing of the current floorplan.
I also don't want to extend the current LOS, to keep the RG in a proper position, not to overpower it.

Would really like to get some further feedback when you think my approaches could work and what you think of my ideas.

Cheers sum

P.S. Oh and nice to hear that you have also something in the make. Can't wait to see, you just made me ultra-interested with you comparison..

EDIT: Missed your post Ian:

Well, I have to say, the mapflow at RA is intentional, because it's the most heavy item on the map and it should be hazardous enough to make it not too easy to grab. Thanks for the vid though.
On the other hand, this area has slightly changed. I added a ledge on the right wall (when you walk up the stairs) and moved RA there. So you (mostly) need to move through the tele to grab it.

I feel well with the current itemset (RA, 2YA, MH) but you'll see soon when I load up a new Beta. Good to see you back here!

I like the flow though it took me some time to grab the MH often enough on the paths I used. The most interesting places to fight are the ones that are more open, my favourite is the SG/MH area. I only played against bots so this is not representative but I only had a single fight in the RA area. There were many fights in corridors, maybe too many. Sometimes I missed a third level and more vertical action.


It's clearly a matter of taste but I think it has way too much armor and stuff. This creates those stupid cpm battles where you pump 3 rockets, some secs of LG and a rail into your enemy and he just flies around like an invulnerable rag doll but never dies. It also makes players run when they're low on health/armor because they know there's always a YA close by.

The player who survives a fight is back to full health and armor in like 3 seconds, gets one or two kills before the other guy can get stuff and it starts over...

EDIT: I played another match in vq3 and it felt way better so forget about most of that armor rant. The fact that the map is rather large also prevents some of the things I mentioned in cpm.

Hey dichtfux, thanks for the response. It's highly appreciated. The map is planned for vanilla Quake but shoudl also keep balanced in cpm. I think it works atm, but you didn't have the latest beta. Now I realize, that it was no good decision not to keep you guys up-to-date, especially in fact of the new itemset.
Sorry for that. Now I get more feedback than before..

I'll load up a new beta (still much to do, but better itemset and RA area) so you can get an idea of the current state.
There are not the changes implemented that I mentioned in my last post. Hope that makes sense, it's a bit confusing though..

And then KEEP IT COMING!

We are eagerly waiting for your new beta since you posted these awesome pics on 9th of August.

OK. I packed up a new beta. As I mentioned before, only slight changes to the version before.
Mostly I altered the items, like illustrated in the picture some posts above. And today I expanded the higher YA area. More space to fight now.

BETA 011


I'm freakin' interested in your thoughts. Go and check it out.

Thanks!
sum

P.S. I hope you got your flashlights with you, it's getting dark out there... hope it's not too dark...

Ah, the rain isn't in the pk3. There are missing texture lines all over the map.

Fixed the link, hope it works now. If not, just let me know..

Hmm, the rain...
It's too much swaying att the same time, too fast I think.
You might consider adding some slight white fog to this...

Well, the rain works now. I really like what you did with the Red Armor. Makes it a bit harder to get unless it's clear. I have to reiterate, though. I am not really clear on the theme you are trying to create. It seems as though this map is all body and no soul at the moment. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what path you are taking with the theme?

That aside, it seems the game play is evolving nicely. The map is very balanced, but it's very forgiving. It's not a very large map, but it has more armor than q3dm6 (which is quite on the larger side). This is a bit like "Blood Run" without the different levels. While this isn't a bad thing per se, it's not exactly a good thing. It makes the map highly fast paced but also very even. There may be many confrontations, but far fewer points will be scored. On larger maps, it's usual to score less, but when all the items are so close together, it's hard not to have at least some sort of stack all the time. This will cause both players to be closer in scoring, which could be good. I don't know, I'm sort of rambling here because I'm not sure what to say.

It seems that part of the map is rather neglected as well:



The other portion of the map holds RA, RG, RL, YA, MH, GL and SG. It may be a good area for the person to stay low and try to sneak up on the opponent from a fresh spawn (since one can get YA and RL), but if the other player has control over MH and RA, he or she probably also controls the other YA and the majority of the weapons.

Beta 11:

RL to YA:- That's better chap ... no need to back up or slow down to hop from the RL direct to the YA platform anymore now that you've recessed the YA plaform back a bit and I love the little power box on the wall giving you the option to hop up when coming up the stairs from the LG area towards the RL. Also if you miss the jump coming from the RL, then there is no slowdown to simply use the teleporter anymore ..

RA area:- Much better ... only two small obs. I have are a) VQ3 Bots can't do the TP to RA jump (yet) and end up going round in circles. 2) I kept getting snagged by the broken fence, trying to jump from the platform going up the stairs. I know you want to make it a little harder to get at .. but it became slightly annoying after a few rounds.

Speaking of bots getting stuck I noticed that the Bot got stuck on the RA pit JP and just kept going up and dropping back down by the rear wall. Not sure why this is.

Item layout:- Item layout makes much more sens as well and it's certainly working for me. RG over the MH is awesome and it really works on that ledge.

Visuals:- I quite like em, where others may not and think they are coming along nicely sir, much more moody. I really like the structual detail on the walls and the recessed lights at the bottom of the walls by the JP from the LG corridor ... very pleasing on the eye. Also the fencing around the tops of the walls is a great little touch..(forgot to mentions that about beta8). The wooden panels on the floor of the TP exit platform and the RA platform are nice as well.

Nice update overall

Ian.

Item layout is fun and the MH spot made me use the passage at GL much more. If the MH isn't available, the jump to that ledge using the pipes also makes more sense now, the RG is worth it.

I agree on what foralarx said on the new RA area, it's better but atm it feels like a small dead end there in the broken fence.

On the bot problem: it looks a bit strange when they're walking in the air but you could consider making a small bridge out of bot-clip for them. I'd prefer that they take RA, I don't care if they look strange for a second.

To me the theme looks like a prison at night, especially the fencing at the top and those watch towers. I'm not sure about the yellow lights in the floor, they look a bit too high-tech compared with the rest imo. Matter of taste I guess.

I gotta play more when I get back from the library.

Most of the time I just run through maps and look at stuff these days. I didn't even play one of those great-looking contest maps I gotta admit. But I've played this one quite a lot, can't really say why. Guess that's good. And I'm also in the mood to play some of the other maps now.

Hey thanks for the quick feedback again.

@Hipshot:
I'll have a look at the rain shader again, polishing it by reducing the amount of drops.
I already had some fog in there. But it interacts with other shaders (envmaps) and causes some bad looks. Catchword shaderstages. Any idea how to solve that?

@Anthem:
The theme is based on an old prison, dichtfux is the first one who recognized it. I think I have to add some more detail to make it clear, like grates and stuff. I'm really happy about any photo reference material that you guys can bring in. So the theme is still worked on. Still not sure if I keep the yellow lights.

I don't see the map divided in those areas.
I see it more this way: One side holds RA, YA, RL, other side YA, MH, RL, RG, LG.
That's why I want to keep the RA area slowing you down a bit.

@Foralarx:
Thanks for your kind words. I'll try to improve the botbehaviour in the future releases. But first of all this map is to be played online. :-)
And I also have a look on the RA ledge fence again.

@dichtfux:
Ye, you got it. The development of the visuals is focused on a prison theme.
Would really liek to hear some further thoughts if you got.

Thanks!

The map isn't divided in those areas, per se, but the juxtaposition between them is lacking balance. There are barely any resources around that area. It looks rather bare compared to the rest of the map.

Played the beta... are you going to add environmental sounds to the map? I am always a bit dissappointed when a realistic looking map doesn't sound realistic (to me it's like a nice looking meal without aroma). With sound a map becomes "alive".