[Beta] pukka3tourney7

[sumatra]

BETA-Time!

Still adjusting/creating high res textures, changing the color situation, moving items.
Would like to get some feedback on following points, but also in general:

- Items (What about swapping RL and YA? MH-place needs to be reworked)
- MH-room, ideas/suggestions?
- Textures
- Lighting

Would be nice to get some of your impressions written down. Just tell me what comes to your mind..
Also some suggestions regarding lowpoly areas, like @RA and @MH.

Thanks in advance

Download Beta 1

[Pat Howard]

Hi Sumatra,

I just ran around for a bit, so I don't have anything to say about gameplay now. Maybe later.

What I really want to talk about is theme now that you say you're in BETA anyway. This map reminds me of your last one in that the theme kind of takes the back seat in most areas. I mean, If someone asked me to give them a quick one or two sentence description of what your map looks like, I'm not sure I'd be able to do it at this point. It just looks like a good layout with some really nice textures applied - nothing more. This is a real shame, because I've seen all your past maps and I know you have the ability to really wrap an aesthetic together .

So my initial suggestion is not to just add more random detail, but to instead sit back and decide upon a more coherent theme that will tie the whole place together and make it feel more like a plausible environment. I think you can definitely do a lot with those textures.

-pat

[fKd]

describe a quake 3 map with out using its name

[Hipshot]

I just ran around - and I see great graphical potential here.

I think you should switch those stairs into something that doesn't have a lamp in it, conc or wood perhaps.

The dark metal trim you are using, with the white bolts, I think it would be better to use something else, somehow, I don't think it fits, it's to prominent.

I pretty much always dislikes glows and coronas around lamps, this strong when there's nothing in the air that justifies them, like rain or fog...

[cityy]

I like the item changes you made. Seems to work out with [RL,YA,MH,LG] and [RA,RG,50].
About switching YA and RL: I'd say no because it works the way it is now. Though, if you decide to change it you could just place a JP in the MH room and the MH on top of it. It shouldn't be directly connected to the RL path tho.. maybe so you can reach it with a jump.
Lighting: I like it, the yellow is pretty cool - I also like your flares.
Texturing: Looks like a solid start - I think your brick texture could be a little more dirty. You have that rock that broke through the brick wall there at the RG that made me wonder why the brick is so clean if the "nature" seems to be pretty alive. Also the concrete and parts of the floor seem more dirty than the brick.

[lvlshot]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5079/20100717183718369.jpg[/lvlshot]
Don't like that trim at all somehow - the color doesn't fit in IMO.

[sumatra]

Hey folks,

thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate this. I'm a bit in a hurry, so just a few words.

I still have heavy problems with the MH area.
I'm not satisfied gameplaywise with it at the current state. Maybe you have some fresh ideas for it.

@Pat: There are really true words in your response.
Thanks for that. I'll do my best to get more towards a "consistent" theme. If you got some ideas, just let me know.

@Hipshot: Will keep your thoughts in mind. The lighttheme is not final yet. I also don't like those unnatural coronas in a day setting, so I'll change it to night. I'll also replace some of the textures that I started with to better fit the overall theme (which is still in development).

@cityy: At the moment I like that rusty trim. Maybe I willl alter the current saturation at a later date.

So, thanks again and keep it coming. I'll post screenshots from time to time o get you posted on the theme.

Cheers!

EDIT:

Well, one quick one (I used a great sky by Hipshot)

[Hipshot]

No no.. the other sky and lighting was much better =)=)
However, the yellow ground lamps there, quiet the cool effect!

[Pat Howard]

@Hipshot: Funny, I actually like the colorful lights and coronas at night time a lot better, but at the same time, I also never felt those lights “belonged” in the first place... more on that below.

@Sumatra: You asked me if I had any ideas for a more consistent theme. Of all the possible directions in this map, the idea that sticks out to me the most clearly at this moment is the rusty metal frame supports you have partially enclosing some of the pathways. It kind of reminds me of this map. Maps that are sandy/rusty/post-apocalyptic tend to have a less varied color palette, which is why I said above that I don’t think the bright colors fit. Of course you could take the colorful night time direction (that shot above reminds me of Asian Nights), but my intuition tells me a day-time setting is in order. It seems that Hipshot feels that way too. That being said, we are not you . Go with whatever idea is coming to you most clearly and directly and the theme should take care of itself.

As for the layout, the problems with the MH area become pretty clear once the map is looked at from above. That area is just “tacked on” to the side of the rest of the map, which is very compact and circular otherwise.



My favorite part of the map is definitely the path outlined in red. The rest of the map is useful with the RG and some other items, but people definitely won’t be spending much time there. This is why I think the MH is positioned exactly opposite where it should be. If you were going to expand this map (and I think you should, just a little), I think you should do so in the direction of the green arrow and put the MH there instead. As things are, the map is pretty lopsided.

-pat

[sumatra]

Hey Guys, thanks for your thoughts. I already made significant changes to the MH-area and the itemset as well.
Hope it works with two YAs.

I also polished the underground level (beneath GL) with some arches.
Still swapping around items, because I'm not sure if it works. Had a local game on it last night.
I like the night theme most at this point.
Maybe that will change again at a later date.
I tried to make other paths worth to run by altering the itemset.
I'll also try to change the theme to a more consistent one. Inspired by an old industrial (semi-modern), worn-out outpost.

Here is a quick overview of my changes. As Pat already mentioned, the MH (now YA room) wasn't integrated properly to the layout.
Someone also mentioned the map is too small. Now its extended in some parts.

It's much of a non-effective testing and playing around at the moment, I think I get rusty...

Maybe I pull out a new Beta soon..



EDIT: New Beta soon!

[ShadoW_86]

Well, last picture looks good as a start for real map . Still I would swap YAs with MH&RA so the most powerful items are furthere away from themself.

[sumatra]

It's not only about the distance. I understand your concerns, but if you see the map ingame, maybe you better understand the current setting.
The paths between both YAs and the MH are faster than the path from RA to another main item at the moment.
Anyway, it's still not decided yet. It's still in the process.

Thanks for your input and I'm glad it's going more and more to look like a 'real' map

I also think it could work good as a 2v2 layout, so maybe I'm creating a second itemset with a powerup.

[sumatra]

I'm finished Beta 008.
I'm curious about your view on the current state.
It got bigger, maybe it works for 2v2 as well. If so I'll release a 2v2 itemset with PU as well.

Still few things to do:

- clipping!
- terrain blending
- replacing few textures
- lighting (bright enough)
- adding detail to certain areas (RA i.e.)
- polishing
- items
..


Download Beta 008

[monaster]

Downloading now, looks promising.
Something related to the question about the jump to the teleport exit platform in an earlier beta (if it was possible or not): it actually IS possible to jump up there without any rj or the like BUT you have to set your maxFPS to the magic 125 and perform a perfect jump. I performed it twice or three times to test it, it works.

[sumatra]

No further thoughts on this one?

I think you're all a bit busy at the moment, NoGhost Cotnest on the way, but I would really like to read your opinions on the current state. So if you find some spare time, let me know.

Pat, Hipshot, roughrider, Shadow, cityy, Anthem and the others!

[cityy]

Aww, man I wanted to comment but forgot it... I'm gonna come back to it!

[Anthem]

Just some small layout suggestions:

I will likely post more feedback later.

Replace this rocket launcher with Mega:



Get rid of the Rocket Launcher over here and move red armor back a bit (on the rail trail). I also recommend adding some sort of vertical covering like wooden boards or even a pipe. Perhaps you can carve into the rock to create a small cave to house the red armor; do something simple to make a small obstacle.:



Some other suggestions without pictures:

Replace the Grenade Launcher with Railgun and centralize it. (Maybe make the jump from RL to RG just a little harder.)

Replace the original Railgun position with a Plasma Gun.

Replace the original Mega Health position with Lightning.

Replace the original position of Lightning with a Rocket Launcher (or around it). Don't position it too close to the Red Armor; perhaps even closer to the YA in that area.

These are just some minor suggestions. I am trying to consider map balance. Hopefully this will stimulate some thought on the layout.

Cheers. The map is coming along splendidly.

[sumatra]

Yeehaaaaw.

Some fresh ideas are quite the thing I needed. Thanks man.
The RA area needs more work the next days. The idea with the pipes sound nice.

I tried to illustrate your suggestions quick:



Only issues I see:
- PG area is nearly useless, it's a dangerous pit and not worth for a PG IMO.
- Only one RL could be hard for the down player to come back.
- MH can be easier camped.

Based on your input I created following itemset:



- 2 RL on both ends of the map, not too near to RA and MH.
- RG on upper route, slugs removed, so you always have to move up there to keep loaded.
- MH in down in the pit, dangerous too camp for some seconds.

If you have some other ideas here is also a blanco overview:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2646/shot0103.jpg

Looking forward to your opinion on the set.
Cheers!

[Anthem]

To be honest I was actually thinking about RL going where plasma was before I posted. I didn't know if you were entirely committed to 2x RLs so I figured PG would be a better fit, but parallel Rocket Launchers seems to be fine. I agree with the Mega placement and also considered that, but I liked where the shotgun was located. Now, however, there is no location for the Shotgun. I recommend either getting rid of the Grenade Launcher or Plasma Gun for the Shotgun (or even replace GL with Plasma and place SG where Plasma was).

Reasoning: The Grenade Launcher and Plasma Gun both usually end up being spam weapons, the Plasma usually being more useful. Having both isn't as necessary as having a close range weapon like the Shotgun.

[cityy]

What about replacing the GL with SG and placing the GL at the bottom of the jumppad in the upper right corner of your screen.

[sumatra]

Hey Anthem, no I was not entirely committed to 2 RL, but I think it gives the map a better balance.
I also agree with you regarding the SG. I think I'll replace the PH with the SG, because the GL can be very useful in some areas by 'spamming' in a predictive way.

Hey cityy, the GL would then be placed directly next to the LG. I think you didn't see it there? :-)

Other ideas?

[sumatra]

One dark late-night-shot to keep you posted.
Got some structural feedback on RA area.

Testing it out:

[Anthem]

It doesn't look bad, but I'm really not sure about how cohesive this theme is. It seems too early in production to judge.

[Hipshot]

Are you using a high ambient value here? Cause the light looks very flat and bland on the left wall and around that area...

[obsidian]

Yes, the first 3 screenshots looked great, but everything after that looks washed out.

[Hipshot]

I think you should go for darker shadows and a stronger moon light, not saying that you need to decrease the skylight, just increase the sunlight.

Then, if a shadow is too dark, bounce it around with some neat point lights. Then you can avoid these flat shadows and controll your ligth better.

I use ambient, but very very little, in my current map I'm using _minlight 5