A conversation with a great Q4 pro player on MSN

[DRuM]

For anyone interested. Rufus could well be a contender for top 10 players in the world. He's got sponsorship now. We fell out a while ago but re-added each other to MSN.


DRuM says:
Oh paul, ive tweaked my cfg to look like picmip5, sort of. anyway, lost fleet is darker now than before tweaking. do you have some amazing cfg that cures all?
DRuM says:

Paul says:
lol
Paul says:
no
Paul says:
i have no brightskins
Paul says:
everything i tweaked is done on the menu
Paul says:
i just play on 640 with stuff turned off
Paul says:
thats it
Paul says:
i dont even use picmip
DRuM says:
oh youre on 640?
Paul says:
y
DRuM says:
i took your advice about seeing your weapon in q3, and am seeing my weapons in q4, seems to be alright
Paul says:
i turned it off in q4
DRuM says:
rather than invisble
Paul says:
DRuM says:
oh lol
Paul says:
as the models are so unclear to begin with
Paul says:
skinwise
DRuM says:
ya
Paul says:
i dont need a wep to distract me
Paul says:
DRuM says:
so you finding it harder to see the other players then?
Paul says:
yre
Paul says:
yer
Paul says:
but i got used to it
Paul says:
my aim is solid enough
Paul says:
was hitting 70 rail earlier
DRuM says:
hey,
DRuM says:
i saw you and redemz
Paul says:
pc is helping too , even tho i want a even newer 1
DRuM says:
on a server, who was winning?
Paul says:
i won
DRuM says:
ah
DRuM says:
thought so
Paul says:
were in the same team tho so it doesnt matter
Paul says:
were both in synergy
DRuM says:
oh i see
Paul says:
we were playing edge wich is my map
Paul says:
he needed the practice
Paul says:
on fleet he generally wins
DRuM says:
the maps are all a bit shit do you think?
Paul says:
nah im enjoying m
Paul says:
when you spend more time no m
Paul says:
on m
Paul says:
you see little hints
Paul says:
n tricks
Paul says:
that make the maps seem very tough
Paul says:
its amusing
DRuM says:
can you do that crouch slide jump up to YA on the edge? sujoy did a demo at esr
Paul says:
i can do it like 1/100 times
DRuM says:
its hard ye
Paul says:
for me yer
Paul says:
for sujoy it seems simple enough
DRuM says:
im wondering if that move is the new 'bridge to rail' move for q4 so to speak
Paul says:
god i hope not
DRuM says:
lol
Paul says:
this 1 is so much harder
Paul says:
i think i need a new pc again tho
Paul says:
even tho i got this 1 yesterday
DRuM says:
what sort of fps you getting on a busy server?
Paul says:
60ish
DRuM says:
hmm, nice
Paul says:
drops to 50 sometimes
Paul says:
its all well playable tho
DRuM says:
when i play dm on say no doctors or dm17, i go down to late teens
DRuM says:
its terrible for me
Paul says:
amd64 3500+ 1 gig low latency ram n a gf 6800 gt atm
DRuM says:
oooh
DRuM says:
nice
Paul says:
yer
Paul says:
gift from sponsors
DRuM says:
very cool
Paul says:
yer
Paul says:
redemz has the same
Paul says:
allthough he has a x800 xt in it
Paul says:
but i had a 6800 gt lying about
Paul says:
so i changed it
DRuM says:
did they just get in touch with you and offer it or did you have to hassle them or ask them?
Paul says:
they got in touch with me
Paul says:
also getting a medua 5.1 headphones n illuminati keyboards
Paul says:
and travel expenses
Paul says:
should be following the cpl world tour next year
Paul says:
from january on
DRuM says:
this is your chance now to make up for all those mouse problems you had in q3 competitions, right?
Paul says:
yes exactly
DRuM says:
nice
DRuM says:
so your first competition starts from january?
DRuM says:
competition/s
Paul says:
nah im doing some local lans untill the new year
Paul says:
and probably going to dreamhack
Paul says:
in sweden
DRuM says:
cool, i can follow news about you at esr no doubt
Paul says:
heh
Paul says:
yer
Paul says:
hopefully
Paul says:
assuming i wont suck n die
DRuM says:
youll be fine
DRuM says:
i wonder, has anyone heard about czm, cooller, zero4 in this game? there was a czm v zero4 demo but turned out to be fake
DRuM says:
apparently
DRuM says:
ive seen no demos from those guys as yet
Paul says:
czm is training
Paul says:
as far as i know
DRuM says:
ah
Paul says:
but everybody is keeping a low profile
Paul says:
not want to give anything away
Paul says:
for cpl winter
Paul says:
wich i unfortunately cant attend yet
DRuM says:
whys that
Paul says:
didnt get sponsors sorted in time
Paul says:
n registration was closed when i did
DRuM says:
oh i see
DRuM says:
shame
Paul says:
would have been a hassle anyway
Paul says:
sponsors want to see me n redemz perform first on local n european lvl
Paul says:
before they decide to send us around the world
Paul says:
if we perform well in the upcoming time amd might give us new pcs too
Paul says:
1 of those shiney new amd fx57 5200+
DRuM says:
lol, more pcs
DRuM says:
you got pci express now? is it much better than agp?
Paul says:
still using agp on this 1
DRuM says:
aha
Paul says:
reviews say it doesnt matter unless you go into the high quality settings
Paul says:
very high qual
Paul says:
wich nobody wants to use in q4 anyway
DRuM says:
indeed
DRuM says:
have you read about the r_singlelight cvar?
Paul says:
yer
Paul says:
lighthing seems to be the big issue
Paul says:
they remade some maps
Paul says:
that look exactly the same
Paul says:
but everybody gets a solid 63 fps on m
Paul says:
as they dont have complicated light
DRuM says:
it would be great if everyone could get a constant 60fps without the expense of upgrade
Paul says:
yer deffo
Paul says:
allthough i hope they will wait a while
Paul says:
2 months or so
DRuM says:
its amazing watching you duel. you're so calm. whereas redemz runs around at breakneck speed
Paul says:
contrast in styles is amusing isnt it
DRuM says:
but you seem to be slower but in control
DRuM says:
yea
Paul says:
i can be pretty fast if i want to be
DRuM says:
oh i know, i meant it in a good way
DRuM says:
you should upload some demos to esr
DRuM says:
so, you think q4 is better than q3 or just as good?
Paul says:
not uploading demos of a while
Paul says:
i think q4 has the potential to be better
Paul says:
its certainly not less
Paul says:
i like the weps
Paul says:
just needs the lighting sorted tbh
Paul says:
n its on its way
DRuM says:
yep
DRuM says:
i love the rox
Paul says:
of a while = for a while
Paul says:
yer its slower
DRuM says:
great sound
Paul says:
very q2 ish
DRuM says:
so, do you think brightskins, ala osp, will be there soon?
DRuM says:
i personally struggle without them
DRuM says:
my eyes, too old
DRuM says:
q4max made some but, noone is using it
Paul says:
heh
Paul says:
i know
Paul says:
i think people didnt like the attitude of them suddenly saying "well make the future CPL mod"
Paul says:
it was pretty arrogant
DRuM says:
ye
Paul says:
people are enjoying the game default
Paul says:
im going back to that serv where i played redemz if you want to watch
Paul says:
playing a good french guy
Paul says:
freind of mine
DRuM says:
ok, coming

DRuM says:
gg, well won. how good is that luuuka normally, like, slimers league?
Paul says:
well that wasnt his usual lvl if im honest
Paul says:
but i still beat him pretty comfy most of the time
Paul says:
in q3 he was 1 of the best in france
Paul says:
its hard to say where hes standing now
Paul says:
but i dont know how good i am yet
DRuM says:
yea
Paul says:
i feel good on edge tho
Paul says:
its a remake of the main q2 map
DRuM says:
would you like to see remakes of dm6 and ztn, or just new maps?
Paul says:
i was undefeated on q2dm1 for 1.5 year before i retired
Paul says:
so playing it again is nice
DRuM says:
yea
Paul says:
nah i feel good on the current maps
Paul says:
i dont need more remakes
Paul says:
im hoping for 2 or 3 more customs
Paul says:
maybe replace fraggin yard
Paul says:
keep no fleet and over the edge
Paul says:
add 2 or 3 customs
DRuM says:
hmm, if lost fleet wasnt so dark it would be fun
Paul says:
its not so dark for me
Paul says:
just increase brightness
Paul says:

DRuM says:
i did, doesnt really help, and gamma, i think i need to untweak
DRuM says:

Paul says:
tbh
Paul says:
take a default cfg
Paul says:
n then just put everything on low
Paul says:
increase the gamma
Paul says:
thats it
Paul says:
DRuM says:
ok
DRuM says:
ill try that
DRuM says:
and invisble weapons?
Paul says:
in the end thats how all pros will play anyway
Paul says:
just use what your comfy with tbh
Paul says:
drawgun 1 or 2 is kinda irrelevant
DRuM says:
yer
Paul says:
whatever you like
DRuM says:
ok

[Foo]

Oh paul, ive tweaked my cfg to look like picmip5, sort of. anyway, lost fleet is darker now than before tweaking. do you have some amazing cfg that cures all?

lol

no

i have no brightskins

everything i tweaked is done on the menu

i just play on 640 with stuff turned off

thats it

i dont even use picmip

oh youre on 640?

y

i took your advice about seeing your weapon in q3, and am seeing my weapons in q4, seems to be alright

i turned it off in q4

rather than invisble

oh lol

as the models are so unclear to begin with

skinwise

ya

i dont need a wep to distract me

so you finding it harder to see the other players then?

yre

yer

but i got used to it

my aim is solid enough

was hitting 70 rail earlier

hey,

i saw you and redemz

pc is helping too , even tho i want a even newer 1

on a server, who was winning?

i won

ah

thought so

were in the same team tho so it doesnt matter

were both in synergy

oh i see

we were playing edge wich is my map

he needed the practice

on fleet he generally wins

the maps are all a bit shit do you think?

nah im enjoying m

when you spend more time no m

on m

you see little hints

n tricks

that make the maps seem very tough

its amusing

can you do that crouch slide jump up to YA on the edge? sujoy did a demo at esr

i can do it like 1/100 times

its hard ye

for me yer

for sujoy it seems simple enough

im wondering if that move is the new 'bridge to rail' move for q4 so to speak

god i hope not

lol

this 1 is so much harder

i think i need a new pc again tho

even tho i got this 1 yesterday

what sort of fps you getting on a busy server?

60ish

hmm, nice

drops to 50 sometimes

its all well playable tho

when i play dm on say no doctors or dm17, i go down to late teens

its terrible for me

amd64 3500+ 1 gig low latency ram n a gf 6800 gt atm

oooh

nice

yer

gift from sponsors

very cool

yer

redemz has the same

allthough he has a x800 xt in it

but i had a 6800 gt lying about

so i changed it

did they just get in touch with you and offer it or did you have to hassle them or ask them?

they got in touch with me

also getting a medua 5.1 headphones n illuminati keyboards

and travel expenses

should be following the cpl world tour next year

from january on

this is your chance now to make up for all those mouse problems you had in q3 competitions, right?

yes exactly

nice

so your first competition starts from january?

competition/s

nah im doing some local lans untill the new year

and probably going to dreamhack

in sweden

cool, i can follow news about you at esr no doubt

heh

yer

hopefully

assuming i wont suck n die

youll be fine

i wonder, has anyone heard about czm, cooller, zero4 in this game? there was a czm v zero4 demo but turned out to be fake

apparently

ive seen no demos from those guys as yet

czm is training

as far as i know

ah

but everybody is keeping a low profile

not want to give anything away

for cpl winter

wich i unfortunately cant attend yet

whys that

didnt get sponsors sorted in time

n registration was closed when i did

oh i see

shame

would have been a hassle anyway

sponsors want to see me n redemz perform first on local n european lvl

before they decide to send us around the world

if we perform well in the upcoming time amd might give us new pcs too

1 of those shiney new amd fx57 5200+

lol, more pcs

you got pci express now? is it much better than agp?

still using agp on this 1

aha

reviews say it doesnt matter unless you go into the high quality settings

very high qual

wich nobody wants to use in q4 anyway

indeed

have you read about the r_singlelight cvar?

yer

lighthing seems to be the big issue

they remade some maps

that look exactly the same

but everybody gets a solid 63 fps on m

as they dont have complicated light

it would be great if everyone could get a constant 60fps without the expense of upgrade

yer deffo

allthough i hope they will wait a while

2 months or so

its amazing watching you duel. you're so calm. whereas redemz runs around at breakneck speed

contrast in styles is amusing isnt it

but you seem to be slower but in control

yea

i can be pretty fast if i want to be

oh i know, i meant it in a good way

you should upload some demos to esr

so, you think q4 is better than q3 or just as good?

not uploading demos of a while

i think q4 has the potential to be better

its certainly not less

i like the weps

just needs the lighting sorted tbh

n its on its way

yep

i love the rox

of a while = for a while

yer its slower

great sound

very q2 ish

so, do you think brightskins, ala osp, will be there soon?

i personally struggle without them

my eyes, too old

q4max made some but, noone is using it

heh

i know

i think people didnt like the attitude of them suddenly saying "well make the future CPL mod"

it was pretty arrogant

ye

people are enjoying the game default

im going back to that serv where i played redemz if you want to watch

playing a good french guy

freind of mine

ok, coming


gg, well won. how good is that luuuka normally, like, slimers league?

well that wasnt his usual lvl if im honest

but i still beat him pretty comfy most of the time

in q3 he was 1 of the best in france

its hard to say where hes standing now

but i dont know how good i am yet

yea

i feel good on edge tho

its a remake of the main q2 map

would you like to see remakes of dm6 and ztn, or just new maps?

i was undefeated on q2dm1 for 1.5 year before i retired

so playing it again is nice

yea

nah i feel good on the current maps

i dont need more remakes

im hoping for 2 or 3 more customs

maybe replace fraggin yard

keep no fleet and over the edge

add 2 or 3 customs

hmm, if lost fleet wasnt so dark it would be fun

its not so dark for me

just increase brightness

i did, doesnt really help, and gamma, i think i need to untweak

tbh

take a default cfg

n then just put everything on low

increase the gamma

thats it

ok

ill try that

and invisble weapons?

in the end thats how all pros will play anyway

just use what your comfy with tbh

drawgun 1 or 2 is kinda irrelevant

yer

whatever you like

ok

[DRuM]

Nice one Mr.Foo

[Foo]

Search and Replace For The Win!

BTw which point are you highlighting here, that people shouldn't be overly concerned with tweaking? I'd tend to agree with that.

[DRuM]

Well just a general insight as to what rufus has to say about the game, plus there are some little tips in there like that one.

[RedAlley]

Well that sure was a waste of 5 minutes.

[DooMer]

I'm gay.

[Grandpa Stu]

it'd be nice if
he could type his thoughts
and ideas
out in one line
so it's not so
fucking hard to read

[DRuM]

I was just trying to share the wealth

[jester!]

Its true though that if the lighting got sorted, ie. we could turn it all off and have a solid single light source, then a whole lot of the fps problems would be alleviated.

Other then sound tweaks I dont think there is much more I could do with my config at the moment to squeeze out any more performance...

Just to make that clear...


RAVEN, TWEAK THE MAPS THANKS. :icon32:

[Tormentius]

Its true though that if the lighting got sorted, ie. we could turn it all off and have a solid single light source, then a whole lot of the fps problems would be alleviated.

Other then sound tweaks I dont think there is much more I could do with my config at the moment to squeeze out any more performance...

Just to make that clear...


RAVEN, TWEAK THE MAPS THANKS. :icon32:

Why in fuck would they butcher the engine they built on one of the best graphics engines on the market in order to make it look like something designed 8 years ago?! I see you pushing this viewpoint a lot but if your system sucks that bad then play another game.

:icon8:

[jester!]

Its true though that if the lighting got sorted, ie. we could turn it all off and have a solid single light source, then a whole lot of the fps problems would be alleviated.

Other then sound tweaks I dont think there is much more I could do with my config at the moment to squeeze out any more performance...

Just to make that clear...


RAVEN, TWEAK THE MAPS THANKS. :icon32:

Why in fuck would they butcher the engine they built on one of the best graphics engines on the market in order to make it look like something designed 8 years ago?! I see you pushing this viewpoint a lot but if your system sucks that bad then play another game.

:icon8:

pfff, if you like running around in the dark thats fanfuckingtastic. I would like to be able to see whats going on, and play a game without wanting to puke after 30 minutes from the bob pitch settings being locked to server side, stuttering frames, and terrible lighting.

Yes I turned every q3 map into a fairly uniform set of textures, used bright skins, and no mip, even when I had a system that got 200 frames with good looking settings, why? Because thats what I like to play with, Im not saying "Hey raven, why not just release this in the Q1 engine kthxbye!".

All I am saying is create the option for those of us who arent graphic whores to play the game how we want it.

BTW are you Torment from the 2000ish timeframe?

[Tormentius]

pfff, if you like running around in the dark thats fanfuckingtastic. I would like to be able to see whats going on, and play a game without wanting to puke after 30 minutes from the bob pitch settings being locked to server side, stuttering frames, and terrible lighting.

Yes I turned every q3 map into a fairly uniform set of textures, used bright skins, and no mip, even when I had a system that got 200 frames with good looking settings, why? Because thats what I like to play with, Im not saying "Hey raven, why not just release this in the Q1 engine kthxbye!".

All I am saying is create the option for those of us who arent graphic whores to play the game how we want it.

BTW are you Torment from the 2000ish timeframe?

Light and shadow are part of gameplay IMO. I don't spend my $ on hardware and software to play a game at the lowest settings possible because, IMO again, its pointless.

No, I'm not Torment from 2000.

[jester!]

Light and shadow are part of gameplay IMO. I don't spend my $ on hardware and software to play a game at the lowest settings possible because, IMO again, its pointless.

Well really this argument is more pointless anyway. You want your shadows, thats great, I am not going to hand over hundreds of dollars just for the joy of not seeing the guy who just killed me.

We are most likely simply on opposite ends of the spectrum of players and once again there should be nothing wrong with that, but there are plent of people who play with settings like I do, and since we most likely wont be playing together after the first few months as the mini communities diverge into competative and casual circles its a moot point. Really the modders will most likely have the ability to fix nearly all the things people are considering flaws atm so its even more of a pointless argument! More optimised maps for MP will be released, console tweaks will be opened up, and everyone will go their merry way.

However its worth stating for Raven/id that there are people out there who want certain options, and since it shouldnt have any kind of impact on you whatsoever, then whats the problem?

Other then, "I know this guy isnt playing the game how I think it should be played and its not fair..."

[Tormentius]

However its worth stating for Raven/id that there are people out there who want certain options, and since it shouldnt have any kind of impact on you whatsoever, then whats the problem?

Other then, "I know this guy isnt playing the game how I think it should be played and its not fair..."

Its a massive competitive advantage in gameplay to have all shadows off and a single lightsource and thats exactly why its cheat-protected. If you don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars or play a game the way it was designed to be played why not just stick with old games your hardware can actually run? Theres no point in buying a brand new game with the latest graphics engine tweaks in order to make it look like ass.

[jester!]

Once again I disagree, the gameplay could be great, its not all about pretty pictures for all of us.

I can get in the 50-60fps range as it is now, and by adjusting some monitor settings and stuff dont get that ill, but there ARE settings that should be client side, bobbing, doublevision are 2 of the obvious ones, granted all imo but thats the point of a forum.

If the graphics engine is all that sold you would you stick around if the gameplay sucked?

[Tormentius]

Once again I disagree, the gameplay could be great, its not all about pretty pictures for all of us.

I can get in the 50-60fps range as it is now, and by adjusting some monitor settings and stuff dont get that ill, but there ARE settings that should be client side, bobbing, doublevision are 2 of the obvious ones, granted all imo but thats the point of a forum.

If the graphics engine is all that sold you would you stick around if the gameplay sucked?

If all I cared about was playing an excellent, finely tuned game at the lowest possible settings I would have kept playing Q3. Bobbing being client-side I can definitely agree with but double-vision is a gameplay dynamic and should be left where it is. If its not about combining both graphics and gameplay then why not stick with older tried and true games?

Edit: By the way, why should a game designer cater to the people with the lowest hardware specs? Technology is about pushing forward, not staying the same.

[clkou]

I’ve thought about this issue a lot and I think :icon15: and other gaming companies would be better served if they would enable options such as brightskins and simpleitems to improve visibility.

Developers have commented that they are disappointed when they go to LAN competitions and see blurry screens (r_picmip 5) when the engine is capable of rendering complicated and beautiful detail. The main reason players do it is for visibility and if options were already in place to take care of it, the competitive community wouldn’t be so set on tweaking it down ourselves.

If my memory serves me correctly, UT2K4 did this in their tourney mode with a blue outline around the player, which is a good start, but they should take it even further with full brightskins and simpleitems.

[jester!]

Because eventually tournaments dry up, servers dry up and there are less people to play against and you dont always want to play in a clan match.

People have stuck with QW and people will stick with Q3 until the mods come out to pull them to the new game. I dont know, I got in on Q3 after it had been out awhile so dont know if there was such a big fuss around settings, and how new players werent getting in fast enough but if a simple setting could make the game easier for more people, who dont have $$$ to drop on a top of the line behemoth comp, to get into I dont see how that could be a bad thing for Raven/id, or the community at large.

EDIT: Shit and simple items! That sure would help, but thats just more of a lazy thing since eventually everything will get memorized.

[Tormentius]

I’ve thought about this issue a lot and I think :icon15: and other gaming companies would be better served if they would enable options such as brightskins and simpleitems to improve visibility.

Developers have commented that they are disappointed when they go to LAN competitions and see blurry screens (r_picmip 5) when the engine is capable of rendering complicated and beautiful detail. The main reason players do it is for visibility and if options were already in place to take care of it, the competitive community wouldn’t be so set on tweaking it down ourselves.

If my memory serves me correctly, UT2K4 did this in their tourney mode with a blue outline around the player, which is a good start, but they should take it even further with full brightskins and simpleitems.

Again, you're pushing for developers to cater to the lowest percentage of gamers. If you want to play old game that look like ass then by all means play them but don't expect game designers to keep dumbing them down when they release an entirely new product.

[jester!]

Again, you're pushing for developers to cater to the lowest percentage of gamers. If you want to play old game that look like ass then by all means play them but don't expect game designers to keep dumbing them down when they release an entirely new product.

If it were as hard as redesigning an engine perhaps but I somehow I doubt its rocket science to unlock a command already in the engine.

[Tormentius]

Again, you're pushing for developers to cater to the lowest percentage of gamers. If you want to play old game that look like ass then by all means play them but don't expect game designers to keep dumbing them down when they release an entirely new product.

If it were as hard as redesigning an engine perhaps but I somehow I doubt its rocket science to unlock a command already in the engine.

Wtf is difficult to understand about the concept of competitive advantage? There is a reason its cheat-protected.

If you don't have the cash to upgrade to a level where you can get acceptable performance on decent hardware then don't play the game; its pretty damned easy. You wouldn't expect Microsoft to support running XP Pro on a 486 so why are you expecting Raven/id to support people who expect their game to run at top performance on shit hardware?

[Foo]

That's harsh. HL2 is an obvious counter example to your argument, Torm.

It looks fantastic, and runs excellently on lower hardware, due to extensive options for graphics adjustment.

[Tormentius]

That's harsh. HL2 is an obvious counter example to your argument, Torm.

It looks fantastic, and runs excellently on lower hardware, due to extensive options for graphics adjustment.

HL2 doesn't look near as good Foo and the MP in it was shit IMO. You just can't expect to be able to play the latest games which are released at max performance without dropping some cash on hardware anymore. Again, a single light source gives a significant advantage to the lowest rung of players over those of us who enjoy playing a game the way its designed to be played.

[jester!]

Wtf is difficult to understand about the concept of competitive advantage? There is a reason its cheat-protected.

If you don't have the cash to upgrade to a level where you can get acceptable performance on decent hardware then don't play the game; its pretty damned easy. You wouldn't expect Microsoft to support running XP Pro on a 486 so why are you expecting Raven/id to support people who expect their game to run at top performance on shit hardware?

Your not reading. We will be playing in different circles I can almost guarantee, and as such the people I play with will nearly all have the settings turned down. Go to a lan tourney and see for yourself. Best hardware, worst settings.

Not only that but I can get playable frames, I just want it to be a shade better. I am not asking for it to run at 125fps on my p3 500. I am asking for the option of turning off the dynamic shadows, I wont even call it dynamic lighting. The only thing that is really lacking in my tower is the old geforce 3, other then that I have a 3gig p4, and 1gig of ram, more then enough to play the game, but that isnt the point. The point is enjoying the game.

Hell make it a server side setting if you want, whatever, but dont force us into playing your style of game just because.

Jesus, it really doesnt matter anyway, mods will fix it and then you can play on the baseq4 servers and everyone else who will play this for years after will be on other servers.

Yeah its a competative advantage I understand that, but your missing my point...

EDIT: Ah the whole way it was designed to be played argument. Answer me this, if the game was even less tweakable now and you were stuck with 15 fps unless you had the standard 3gig proc/1gig ram/128meg card, how many people would return the game as unplayble? How much money would Raven/id make? Enough to justify a new game? Support? I doubt it.

And define lowest rung for me? :icon29:

EDIT x 2!: And how many people are getting squeezed into console gaming because of the new cost of a game? $60 sounds great until you add in the $200 gfx card $100 sound card, and $250 proc. And even then your getting slow downs at your precious max settings...