so i have ideas for maps in my head but have never tried mapping, really like to get into it but seems theres so much to kno.
first off is there any place where i can just figure out all the mapping lingo, like a list of em with definitions. and any useful tutorials on how to go about making the layout for a map thats more complex than just a box or rectangle...cant seem to find any threads like it cuz theres just so much info on the forums and stickies...thx
noob to mapping
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+JuggerNaut+
- Posts: 22175
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:00 am
Welcome to LEM!
What game are you trying to map for? Quake III is a relatively simple place to start. It's not as complex as Doom3/Quake4 and the resources and tools are all well refined by now, so you should be able to learn some of the best techniques from tried, tested and true methods from people with lots of experience. Since Doom3/Quake4 are still relatively new, everyone is more or less learning as we go along. Those of us who are veterans will have less trouble adapting.
For Quake III, you will need to download GtkRadiant, if you haven't already. It actually comes with the QeRadiant manual, while a bit outdated, it is in general a good place to start... at least to come to an understanding of the basic terminology, etc. I recommend using GtkRadiant 1.4.0 to start off with. The latest 1.5.x versions are a little unstable if you don't already know what you are doing.
http://www.qeradiant.com
Other tools that you may need is Q3Map2 that you use to compile your maps with. You can download the latest version from my signature. Also do a search for Q3Map2toolz which you will need to actually run Q3Map2 with a GUI, since Q3Map2 is a command line program. You will also find a temporary mirror in my sig to the Q3Map2 Shader Manual when you feel like you are ready to dabble with some of the special effects required to create your own textures and shaders.
My personal all time favourite tutorial on building techniques was written by Quakin' a few years ago. Absolutely excellent. It is quite in depth, so read it after reading the QeRadiant manual and even then you may not understand everything, but it will certainly set you up on the right track.
Quakin's Sample Map Thread
The stickies are also chock full of additional resources and tutorials.
If D3/Q4 is really your thing, then check out http://www.iddevnet.com for your official Id Software SDK related stuff.
Good luck, and let us know if you have any specific questions.
What game are you trying to map for? Quake III is a relatively simple place to start. It's not as complex as Doom3/Quake4 and the resources and tools are all well refined by now, so you should be able to learn some of the best techniques from tried, tested and true methods from people with lots of experience. Since Doom3/Quake4 are still relatively new, everyone is more or less learning as we go along. Those of us who are veterans will have less trouble adapting.
For Quake III, you will need to download GtkRadiant, if you haven't already. It actually comes with the QeRadiant manual, while a bit outdated, it is in general a good place to start... at least to come to an understanding of the basic terminology, etc. I recommend using GtkRadiant 1.4.0 to start off with. The latest 1.5.x versions are a little unstable if you don't already know what you are doing.
http://www.qeradiant.com
Other tools that you may need is Q3Map2 that you use to compile your maps with. You can download the latest version from my signature. Also do a search for Q3Map2toolz which you will need to actually run Q3Map2 with a GUI, since Q3Map2 is a command line program. You will also find a temporary mirror in my sig to the Q3Map2 Shader Manual when you feel like you are ready to dabble with some of the special effects required to create your own textures and shaders.
My personal all time favourite tutorial on building techniques was written by Quakin' a few years ago. Absolutely excellent. It is quite in depth, so read it after reading the QeRadiant manual and even then you may not understand everything, but it will certainly set you up on the right track.
Quakin's Sample Map Thread
The stickies are also chock full of additional resources and tutorials.
If D3/Q4 is really your thing, then check out http://www.iddevnet.com for your official Id Software SDK related stuff.
Good luck, and let us know if you have any specific questions.
[size=85][url=http://gtkradiant.com]GtkRadiant[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com]Q3Map2[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com/docs/shader_manual/]Shader Manual[/url][/size]
thx, and sry if i sound very noobish with my posts heh..and yes ill be doing q4 maps.
yeah ill try looking more into the stickies, but ive noticed alot of the tutorials r broken links now.
well mainly i want to kno the best way to approach the map layout. yes of course ill use brushes...but then i see ppl say simple brushes and detail brushes...not sure wut that means.
ex of wut i want to do: say i want to make a map that is shaped like an L but has diagonal sides for the corners. would i use triangles and square brushes for the shape then put walls around that. or is there a way to make 1 brush or multiple brushes but merge them all into 1 brush.
sry for the long post hehe..im just trying to get a feel for the editor rite now
yeah ill try looking more into the stickies, but ive noticed alot of the tutorials r broken links now.
well mainly i want to kno the best way to approach the map layout. yes of course ill use brushes...but then i see ppl say simple brushes and detail brushes...not sure wut that means.
ex of wut i want to do: say i want to make a map that is shaped like an L but has diagonal sides for the corners. would i use triangles and square brushes for the shape then put walls around that. or is there a way to make 1 brush or multiple brushes but merge them all into 1 brush.
sry for the long post hehe..im just trying to get a feel for the editor rite now
No, brushes cannot be L-shaped. They need to be convex angles. Just use multiple brushes. It is good practice to cover sides that you don't see with caulk, a special texture that tells the game engine to ignore that face. Q4 does a pretty good job of culling unseen sides now, but it's still good practice.
Tip: Start small, very small. Learn the limitations of the engine and proper techniques first rather than wasting a lot of time working on a large full featured map and find out later that it doesn't work or doesn't optimize well. Start of with lots of small test maps and work your way up.
Tip: Start small, very small. Learn the limitations of the engine and proper techniques first rather than wasting a lot of time working on a large full featured map and find out later that it doesn't work or doesn't optimize well. Start of with lots of small test maps and work your way up.
[size=85][url=http://gtkradiant.com]GtkRadiant[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com]Q3Map2[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com/docs/shader_manual/]Shader Manual[/url][/size]
ok this is wut ive got goin so far:
so i made everything with brushes, all the border brushes r the walls, the larger brushes make up the floor layout. this is the only way i can think of to make this shape using the fewest number of brushes..so would this be a valid way to go about it?
then i caulked everything like obsidian said.
the problem i have now is that i add in a single light to try and light up the map, but its completely dark, wuts the best method for lighting a map, in q4 atleast?
so i made everything with brushes, all the border brushes r the walls, the larger brushes make up the floor layout. this is the only way i can think of to make this shape using the fewest number of brushes..so would this be a valid way to go about it?
then i caulked everything like obsidian said.
the problem i have now is that i add in a single light to try and light up the map, but its completely dark, wuts the best method for lighting a map, in q4 atleast?
That looks fine. Technically, you could make the floor with as few as four brushes, rather than the six you have now (learn to use the clipper and/or edge-drag--the clipper is the button on the tool-bar with three dots connected by lines; enable edge-drag by hitting "E"), but the Q4 compile process does a decent job of not only optimizing brushwork where possible, but also discarding unseen faces, whether they are caulked or not.oxytocin wrote:so would this be a valid way to go about it?
I tend to caulk unseen faces anyway--it's not really a bad habit to get into, and there are times that it will make your map a lot easier to work with (makes it clearer visually what's buried and what's not when you have a lot of brushwork hidden). That's another basic thing you'll want to learn eventually--if you're working with a map that's even semi-complex, it's a lot easier to deal with by hiding the rest of the map and only seeing the bit that you're currently working with.
To hide selected: H
To hide unselected: Shift-Ctrl-H
Unhide all: Shift-H
It's not a bad idea to go to Help-->Command List when you're trying to figure out how to do something, or even to just experiment. Note that some of the things in there are a little iffy (example: Auto-Caulk is a mixed blessing--it will generally work, but can miss some things, and tends to caulk oddly shaped visible faces as well--I prefer doing it manually as I go).
I'm not sure why your light didn't work--you do need to make sure that you stretch the bounds of the light volume out until they overlap with surrounding geometry to get the light to show up. And always pull the centers out on your lights and move them around to get the best look--this will make your lighting a billion times better and more efficient (select light, hit J, click the "center" box, move around the pink dot that appears).
You're at a bit of a disadvantage starting with Quake 4, since it's more complicated than Quake 3 when it comes to performance optimization. About the only semi-complicated thing in Quake 3 was use of hint brushes. In Q4, there are all kinds of things to consider.
This is a really, really good resource for optimization tweaks, when you get that far: http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/LevelEditor_Performance
Hope this helps.
[Edit: There are no more hint brushes in Q4, nor detail brushes. Also, you *do* know about F7/F3 to toggle lighting preview in the camera window, yes?]]
I beat the internet; the end guy is hard.
thx for commenting pjw. ill try experimenting more with the edge dragging function, and i do use f3/f7. im willing to learn even if im at a disadvantage.
and i figured out the lighting problem, sort of. i went back and reset my q4 to load the default cfg file. apparently there was something in my tweaked cfg that was messing up lights?? i dont kno the exact cvar thats screwing things up, but im thinking it has something to do with ambient lighting cuz i followed the method's tutorial to light the map with a single ambient light. thats also the standard ppl r going by in q4 for performance now?
i had a question about lightning the whole map in ambient light tho: since it lights up the entire map, do i even have to bother with adding other lights other than for visual effect rather than functionality?
thx for the help guys.
and i figured out the lighting problem, sort of. i went back and reset my q4 to load the default cfg file. apparently there was something in my tweaked cfg that was messing up lights?? i dont kno the exact cvar thats screwing things up, but im thinking it has something to do with ambient lighting cuz i followed the method's tutorial to light the map with a single ambient light. thats also the standard ppl r going by in q4 for performance now?
i had a question about lightning the whole map in ambient light tho: since it lights up the entire map, do i even have to bother with adding other lights other than for visual effect rather than functionality?
thx for the help guys.
The following is my opinion:oxytocin wrote:light the map with a single ambient light. thats also the standard ppl r going by in q4 for performance now?...do i even have to bother with adding other lights other than for visual effect rather than functionality?
Lighting an entire map with a single ambient light is 1) Lazy, and 2) Similar to buying a Ferrari and putting a plywood spoiler on the back of it.
It looks like ass, and not supermodel ass either; I'm talking stanky pimpled fat-guy ass. When you light with a single ambient, you're losing all your bump-mapping and specular and variation and coolness and you're just going to end up with flat, bland crap.
I'm using an ambient light in the map I'm working on currently, but it's set to a *very* low value, and is mainly used to make sure that there are no places that are completely black, and add a certain very low-level base lighting to the world. In the "real world" (which we're ideally trying to approximate, sort of, in the future, you know what I mean) completely black looks weird unless you're in a cave with no lights; normally, if there are lights in the vicinity, you're going to get at least a small bit of light-bounce, even if a surface has no direct lighting. Ambient should be used to simulate this, but using it to light a map sucks audibly.
I do realize there are people out there who don't care at all about looks. This rant does not apply to them. They are sort of weird.