If you could make a mod.

Post by **jester!** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:17 am

What would you change?

Are you happy with the weapon balance? Do all the weapons fill a role or are some useless in the grand scheme of things?

How about armour balance in relation to the weapons and the movement we have available to us?

I have a lot of ideas on what I would like to tweak to make the game more spectator/movie friendly and bring the rail into balance more with the other weapons, but was wondering if any of you have your own thoughts?

Post by **Fjoggs** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:55 pm

1. I'd fix the shitty demo-system.
2. I'd fix the amazingly, horrid avidemo-system.
3. Add \CF_ commands, so one could easily adjust the size of the HUD and messages.
4. Freecam and recam possibilitys, DeFRaG style.
5. D!ABLO/ICE-editor implemented, for mappers so one could adjust itemplacement ingame and try it immidietly.
6. BOT support.

Post by **o'dium** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:28 pm

Id slap everybody on the Raven team for being retarded and missing out "noPicmip" on ALL 2d HUD stuff. Fucking hell, did they not learn that with Doom 3... Then id make a mod and get people to suck my cock just to play it.

Post by **Lenard** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:48 pm

Are you being productive lately o'dium? I really looked forward to seeing new work by you, but haven't seen any in a while.

Post by **prince1000** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:37 pm

as far as visual, cg_showplayerlean and models. models look awkward and just plain silly hopping around.

rg needs an overhaul, reload is way too slow.

and not being able to switch to empty weapons (unless there's a command i'm missing or is that serverside?). takes away some strat.

Post by **o'dium** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:47 pm

Lenard wrote:Are you being productive lately o'dium? I really looked forward to seeing new work by you, but haven't seen any in a while.

I'm, doing a lot of texture work both for Q2E and Q4 levels i'm working on. Its dragging me down a bit, as i have a life as well plus a new shiney 360 to ply with. :d

Post by **jester!** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:03 pm

prince1000 wrote: rg needs an overhaul, reload is way too slow.

So you think the rail is underpowered atm?

Post by **prince1000** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:45 pm

yes, overhaul explicitly implies merely changing the recycle time...

i didn't see the point in reitterating what everyone has been complaining about in regards to the rg and the insane accuracies, hence i used the term overhaul. but, i would like to see a similar recycle time to that of q3 and i don't think that would have anything to do with prediction, hitboxes or whatever it is that's making the rail such an easy weapon to use.

Post by **Fjoggs** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:47 pm

bleh, rg should _not_ have faster reloadtime. that'll make this game go from "rg only", to "rg only, with rg as backup".

Post by **jester!** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:16 pm

prince1000 wrote:yes, overhaul explicitly implies merely changing the recycle time...

i didn't see the point in reitterating what everyone has been complaining about in regards to the rg and the insane accuracies, hence i used the term overhaul. but, i would like to see a similar recycle time to that of q3 and i don't think that would have anything to do with prediction, hitboxes or whatever it is that's making the rail such an easy weapon to use.

Ah sorry I misunderstood.

Post by **waY2Kool** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:39 pm

jester! wrote:make the game more spectator/movie friendly...

what does that have to do with the gameplay?

jester! wrote: bring the rail into balance more with the other weapons...

imo, this game has the best weap balance i've ever seen. nice work, raven.

Post by **jester!** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:00 pm

Heh seriously?

I think if you improved nearly every weapon and made them more focused into specific roles, maybe not the nailgun but its still weird to me, the rail would still be dominant. I dont know maybe its just because of the servers I have been playing on, nother less then 60 ping really, the rail just owns everything, and the sg over powers the lg. Thats really one of my main concerns, and the HB seems weak as hell. I dont know, the weapons feel weaker or more limited to me other then rail, sg, and ng.

Improving spectator/movie quality has nothing to do with gameplay really, though if gameplay is good spec/movie quality would also be good no? So in a way it does. Either way its not a gameplay focused comment.

Post by **waY2Kool** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:22 pm

yeah, seriously.

it's like it doesnt matter what weap you're being approached with or what weapon you have - in 99% of the situations you have a fighting chance.

...unless of course you just suck. :icon26:

Post by **jester!** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:40 pm

See I dont really like balance of that form, and really I disagree that its present in the current weapon set anyway.

Your opponent has one of either RL/RG/SG, you have one of HB/LG/NG. The only way you come out on top is if you have NG and they have RL, your nail spam could get them before they can get in close enough for you to not be able to just move out of the way of the slow (oh but they are they same speed so we are told

) rockets.

The LG is to short to bother the RL/SG until they get into the range where they are going to put you down, and the HB is just not good enough up close compared to the SG. The RG is just going to beat you either way. :icon25:

Having every weapon be nearly as good as any other weapon to me is just boring and not the kind of balance that I would like to see. I want the weapons to scale from terrible (MG should be toned down) to great and multifunctional (RL projectile should be sped up) the more I think about it the more I just want cpma I wish I had played it more when there were more people around...

Post by **Tormentius** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:23 pm

jester! wrote:
Having every weapon be nearly as good as any other weapon to me is just boring and not the kind of balance that I would like to see. I want the weapons to scale from terrible (MG should be toned down) to great and multifunctional (RL projectile should be sped up) the more I think about it the more I just want cpma I wish I had played it more when there were more people around...

Its doubtful that its going to change now and IMO the weapon balance is pretty good. If you're having trouble with other people nailing you consistently with the rail then either fight fire with fire or learn to dodge better and take advantage of the rail's slow reload time.

Post by **jester!** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:32 pm

Oh I know. I doubt raven will change anything, hell I didnt even consider it really.

In terms of a mod however I think things should change, hitbox, etc, and that would be more then fine in curbing the rail.

I want the rail to be good, like I mentioned I like the idea of tiers of weapons and the rail should definitly be in the top tier but as of now I think its far and away the best weapon and unless your running through cramped halls its the obvious choice.

This thread was just more for seeing how people this side of the web see things as every forum is going to have its own idea of balance and such. :icon26:

Post by **waY2Kool** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:53 pm

Tormentius wrote:If you're having trouble with other people nailing you consistently with the rail then either fight fire with fire or learn to dodge better and take advantage of the rail's slow reload time.

yeah, that's kinda what i was getting at.

and jest, i've taken out many RG opponents with every weap available. no prob. you need to reevaluate your defense :icon25:

but i digress....

back thge original question: Rocket Arena 4!!!!

Post by **jester!** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:03 pm

I went to my favorite ra3 server the other night, then again last night, empty like a ghost town.

Which is a shame, so many good times playing ra3 for hours and hours.

As for the rail, I dont know, I guess I just suck. :icon32:

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:58 am

i find a good test of "weapon balance" is this:

stick two skilled opponents in an 1on1 rocket arena which is more or less completely open/flat space.

If it is possible to become such a specialist with each weapon (except gauntlet), that you are a force to be reckoned with even against a skilled opponent using all weapons, then this is a form of weapon balance I respect.

Hand grenades in quake2 are a perfect example.

In quake3, you could really do damage with the machine gun if you combined pinpoint hitscan accuracy with advanced movement tactics, like circling around opponent @ close range, or retreating to a mid-long range position and taking the opponent down from there.

Shotgun was also interesting - high risk high gain. If you were good, you could take down a skilled RL'er close range if you got 2 successive point blank range shots.

Took a zen-like in-your-face approach, but certainly possible.

Perhaps it's too early to assess quake4 in this respect (haven't ever seen or played it yet).

Also, a question - how are the plasma and nailgun functionally different?

From my understanding, they're both rapid-projectile weapons with splash damage.

Post by **DooMer** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:31 am

nails fire slower, but they have a larger splash damage radius. When firing the hyperblaster you want to track your opponent, but with the nailgun you want to aim at the feet like the rocket launcher.

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:41 am

interesting...

wonder if nailgun will become a tempting spam-at-doorway weapon...

how much damage will you suffer if you sustain direct hits for a second?

Post by **DooMer** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 am

Yeah, it sort of is. Direct hits do 30 dmg. Theres also a little bit of a spin up time like the q2 chaingun, but not as long.

Post by **Foo** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:31 am

It's the escape artist's weapon of choice.

By the time they're hitting the last corner you turned, you're around the next one.

Real good stopper, it's really a more effective grenade launcher.

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:05 am

man 30 damage direct - that's insane. Even with a 6.25 hz firing rate that means 187.5 damage per second.

If i were playing quake 4, i'd be practising this gun a lot. Close range circle strafes would be absolutely deadly...though i dunno how much of a sacrifice the splash damage would be.

found this:

http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake4/weapons.htm

Post by **Foo** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:38 am

I wanted to counter your point with some figures, but they are as you stated.

Suffice to say, with the spin-up time, low ammo count, and speed of projectile, it's not the uber-weapon it may seem to an external observer.

If you could make a mod.

If you could make a mod.

Re: If you could make a mod.