so.....some Pakistinian dude

Post by **dmmh** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:51 pm

...has put a reward off 25000$ out for the the death of the cartoonist that drew the cartoons we all have come to know so well and apperently, but unconfirmed, there's another reward out of 1000000$ from a group of jewelers, for the same thing

things are starting to get interesting now, they'd have to kill 12 people as there are 12 cartoonists :icon26:

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:54 pm

actually there has been a reward out for 12kg of gold, and 3 kg of gold for killing a danish soldier
get with it :E

Post by **dmmh** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:02 pm

MKJ wrote:actually there has been a reward out for 12kg of gold, and 3 kg of gold for killing a danish soldier
get with it :E

http://www.nu.nl/news/677233/21/Belonin ... onist.html

:icon27:

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:03 pm

that is indeed what you said in your initial post, ergo my reply would be fitting once more

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:07 pm

I havn't seen the cartoons and really have no desire to. Personally I think that what the cartoonists did was uncalled for and completely unnecessary.
I'm not saying they should be killed, that's also retarded and unnecessary, but this never should've happened in the first place.

Post by **Dek** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:14 pm

Jackal wrote:I havn't seen the cartoons and really have no desire to. Personally I think that what the cartoonists did was uncalled for and completely unnecessary.
I'm not saying they should be killed, that's also retarded and unnecessary, but this never should've happened in the first place.

It's their job. They use cartoons to show their political and satirist wit, it's what they get paid to do. People need to understand and tolerate everyone's differences and beliefs a little more...

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:54 pm

Dek wrote:
Jackal wrote:I havn't seen the cartoons and really have no desire to. Personally I think that what the cartoonists did was uncalled for and completely unnecessary.
I'm not saying they should be killed, that's also retarded and unnecessary, but this never should've happened in the first place.
It's their job. They use cartoons to show their political and satirist wit, it's what they get paid to do. People need to understand and tolerate everyone's differences and beliefs a little more...

So they tolerated the beliefs of these people by doing one of the most sacriligious things they could do to one of their religious icons?

Post by **Foo** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:58 pm

Yeah why not? That's the point they're getting across. What kind of a backwards load of shit is it to be going so overboard over some simplistic drawn images.

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:06 pm

Because depictions of the prophet are considered higly sacred things in the culture and as such should only be done in sacred places by sacred people.
Sure it's "weird" but it's their belief. Who the fuck is some cartoonist to go out and shit all over that belief? I'm not a religious person but I do understand the concepts of honor and respect. Reliogion means everything to these people, they are completely devoted to it. This is something we can't understand because every "westernized" nation is so goddamn cynical and all-knowing that we just push issues like this to the side and call it "crazy".

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:07 pm

Jesus, I need to start proof-reading my posts.

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:09 pm

a point indeed. their reaction is way over the top though

Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:12 pm

Jackal wrote:Because depictions of the prophet are considered higly sacred things in the culture and as such should only be done in sacred places by sacred people.
Sure it's "weird" but it's their belief. Who the fuck is some cartoonist to go out and shit all over that belief? I'm not a religious person but I do understand the concepts of honor and respect. Reliogion means everything to these people, they are completely devoted to it. This is something we can't understand because every "westernized" nation is so goddamn cynical and all-knowing that we just push issues like this to the side and call it "crazy".

No dude, what's crazy is someone thinking that they have the right to riot and kill people over a fucking picture. That's some seriously atavistic shit right there. Islam is stuck in the goddamn stone age, and that's fine as long as they keep it to themselves, but when the fundamentalist crazies start going off like this then they need to be slapped down. Same goes for any religion.

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:13 pm

Yes, I agree that murder is quite absurd but these people still have every reason to be pissed and the cartoonists should be ashamed of themselves.
I am sure without a doubt that they could have gotten the same message across without depicting Muhammed.

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:17 pm

Nightshade wrote:
Jackal wrote:Because depictions of the prophet are considered higly sacred things in the culture and as such should only be done in sacred places by sacred people.
Sure it's "weird" but it's their belief. Who the fuck is some cartoonist to go out and shit all over that belief? I'm not a religious person but I do understand the concepts of honor and respect. Reliogion means everything to these people, they are completely devoted to it. This is something we can't understand because every "westernized" nation is so goddamn cynical and all-knowing that we just push issues like this to the side and call it "crazy".
No dude, what's crazy is someone thinking that they have the right to riot and kill people over a fucking picture. That's some seriously atavistic shit right there. Islam is stuck in the goddamn stone age, and that's fine as long as they keep it to themselves, but when the fundamentalist crazies start going off like this then they need to be slapped down. Same goes for any religion.

They were keeping to themselves. They didn't ask for this shit to happen. Not to mention the fact that the reaction you're condemning stems from something our culture did.
Islam is not stuck in the stoneage, it's 2006 over there just like it is here. They just have a lot more integrity when it comes to sticking to their religious beliefs.
I know that not a lot of people are going to agree with me because I'm one of the most relativistic people I know but in no way is this their fault. They had a simple rule which would be easy enough for us to respect but these people had to go and do the exact opposite thing.

Once again, I think their reaction is extreme and uncalled for but I do see where the anger is coming from.

Post by **Ryoki** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:20 pm

Jackal wrote:Because depictions of the prophet are considered higly sacred things in the culture and as such should only be done in sacred places by sacred people.
Sure it's "weird" but it's their belief. Who the fuck is some cartoonist to go out and shit all over that belief? I'm not a religious person but I do understand the concepts of honor and respect. Reliogion means everything to these people, they are completely devoted to it. This is something we can't understand because every "westernized" nation is so goddamn cynical and all-knowing that we just push issues like this to the side and call it "crazy".

Freedom of speech and right of satire are things that are highly sacred in our culture. Sure it can be uncomfortable but it's our way of life. Who they fuck are they to go out and shit all over that?

If there's one culture displaying a consistent lack of respect for the other in this question, it's Islam. Violence over comics is completely backward behaviour - if people feel insulted they should take it to court or use arguments, not torch embassies and offer rewards for people's death.

Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:24 pm

Sorry, but burning down embassies and killing people isn't keeping to themselves. I can say anything I want about anyone I want, as long as I don't incite violence towards that person or commit slander. AND MOHOMMAD ISN'T EVEN ALIVE.
What if I said Jesus made gay pron flicks? God's a douchebag? No one should have the right to tell me that I can't say these things, and they certainly don't have the right to call for my execution. The whole thing's bullshit, and I don't blame the cartoonists one bit.

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:31 pm

No offense Jackal, but you admit you don't even want to see the cartoons, so you have no platform to complain.

Post by **Deathshroud** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:33 pm

I have no sympathy for the fundamentalist cave people that live in the middle east. I agree with NS, those fuckers need a cranial upgrade.

This is the 21st century, and those sadistic bastards need to learn some tolerance. Where's god damn Hitler when you actually need him?

Post by **Jackal** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:36 pm

Dave wrote:No offense Jackal, but you admit you don't even want to see the cartoons, so you have no platform to complain.

What do you mean? I understand the circumstances surrounding the issue and I also understand that ANY depiction of their prophet is considered sacriledge therefore the fact that there was a depiction of Mohammed made without their consent is enough on its own. I'm aware that the depiction was made and therefore have an argument.

Post by **dmmh** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:43 pm

Ryoki wrote: Freedom of speech and right of satire are things that are highly sacred in our culture. Sure it can be uncomfortable but it's our way of life. Who they fuck are they to go out and shit all over that?

seriously, that argument holds no ground whatsoever, as the thing highly sacred in THEIR culture is their prophet.

not to take sides here, but thats just a silly remark

all this comes down to is: respect for one-and-other. It should all have ended with the cartoons. But no, then there's a Italian minister, or a Dutch member of parliament who stir things up just because they can, under the wings of 'freedom of press, freedom of speech'.
Not to mention all the other recent event.

What is it with people that we always to show so much disrepect for one-and-other?

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:44 pm

If you understand the context, but are unwilling to see the images in question, how can you really know what you're attacking or defending? It's not like viewing accident victims on ogrish or something like that...

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:46 pm

dmmh wrote:
Ryoki wrote: Freedom of speech and right of satire are things that are highly sacred in our culture. Sure it can be uncomfortable but it's our way of life. Who they fuck are they to go out and shit all over that?
seriously, that argument holds no ground whatsoever, as the thing highly sacred in THEIR culture is their prophet.

not to take sides here, but thats just a silly remark

all this comes down to is: respect for one-and-other. It should all have ended with the cartoons. But no, then there's a Italian minister, or a Dutch member of parliament who stir things up just because they can, under the wings of 'freedom of press, freedom of speech'.
Not to mention all the other recent event.

What is it with people that we always to show so much disrepect for one-and-other?

Now we're starting to merge with the Andy Rooney thread. Freedom of Speech is a double-edged sword. You want it, but you want control over it, so technically you don't really want it.

Post by **dmmh** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:46 pm

it wouldnt have made a difference what images were created of him, they would have fallen over it anyway. If it were 12 cartoons gloryfying him, this would still have happened.
So Im with Jackal on this one, it doesnt matter dick

Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:47 pm

dmmh wrote:If it were 12 cartoons gloryfying him, this would still have happened.

You honestly think that?

Post by **dmmh** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:50 pm

Dave wrote:
dmmh wrote:
Ryoki wrote: Freedom of speech and right of satire are things that are highly sacred in our culture. Sure it can be uncomfortable but it's our way of life. Who they fuck are they to go out and shit all over that?
seriously, that argument holds no ground whatsoever, as the thing highly sacred in THEIR culture is their prophet.

not to take sides here, but thats just a silly remark

all this comes down to is: respect for one-and-other. It should all have ended with the cartoons. But no, then there's a Italian minister, or a Dutch member of parliament who stir things up just because they can, under the wings of 'freedom of press, freedom of speech'.
Not to mention all the other recent event.

What is it with people that we always to show so much disrepect for one-and-other?
Now we're starting to merge with the Andy Rooney thread. Freedom of Speech is a double-edged sword. You want it, but you want control over it, so technically you don't really want it.

just because we live in a country (the US has no freedom of speech) where we can celebrate the joy of freedom of speech, does not mean this gives us the right to abuse it.
This is what seperates the civilised from the barbaric.

Its much like looking at the US, just because you are superpower, doesnt give you the right to abuse it.
Do it, and you will start to see the concequences.

the rest is history