Q4 - Level Design (Layout & Gameplay)

[AEon]

Playing the Q4 Demo and especially q4dm1 for 2 days now, I noted quite a few changes in layout and gameplay as compared to Q3A. I'd like to have you folks comment on how important these differences actually are:

1. q4dm1 overall is quite cramped, corridors are not very wide. Is this typical for Q4? In Q3A I usually have corridors twice as wide (possibly just my "style" though)?
2. The acceleration pads seem to be relatively small models (easy to miss). Is this the new default, to use a pad model?
3. Are Q3A-like (vertical) jumppads still "in style" for Q4 (describing a flight "arc")? The pads in q4dm1 seem to require "manual" air control to land properly, since the jumppads are strictly vertical?!
4. q4dm1 is quite boxy (right angles everywhere). Is this also Q4 specific? I.e. that you need to build maps like that to keep the FPS up? Has this got to do with the "boxy" "portals" in Q4 (sorry don't remember the tech used to partition off maps in Q4; solid brushes and hint brushes do that in Q3A)?
5. I noted that a tad of strafe jumping on ramps (angled brushes), will ludicrously catapult you through the map. Is this a new gameplay "thing" for Q4 maps? Is it used to any real advantage? At first I thought someone had lowered the gravity in the map.
6. Since I never was a good strafe jumper, can it be that Q4 are now going for "less" linear strafe jumping, by adding more corners? I.e. strafe jumping is made more difficult?

Obviously when building a custom map you can basically do what you want, but I'd find it interesting what new standards for layout and gameplay take effect with Q4, if any?

[d3mol!t!on]

[edited]

In regards to "e", Quake 2 had similar physics on ramps. If you strafe jumped from a flat surface onto a ramp, then strafe jumped off straight away again, you got quite a lot of speed. Also, if you jumped off the top of a ramp when going up it, you got increased air, and the same is true in Quake 4.

[Oeloe]

1. cramped
2. small acceleration pads
3. boxy
4. strafe jumping on ramps
5. strafe jumping is made more difficult?

You must be aware of the fact that the view height of players is higher than in Q3, so that things tend to look smaller and slower. The jumppads are a bit on the small size yes.

If you want to know why Q4 maps are generally quite boxy, you should read O'dium's threads (in Q4D) about his q3dm6 remake attempt. It was hell to get decent performance because getting vis portals to work properly on it seemed to be impossible (axbaby spent a lot of time on trying to fix this too).

Jumping on ramps (ramp jumping) gives you a boost which you can use to navigate maps. So you're not stuck with stairs, jumppads and lifts/elevators but you can use (small) ramps let a player jump up somewhere or to cross a gap.

I don't think strafing on VQ4 maps has been made deliberately more difficult. It's just a result of the maps they made. Strafejumping is basically the same as in Q3, with the addition that you can make quite sharp turns and keep your speed when you crouch briefly. This is called crouch sliding and it works when sliding up ramps too (i prefer to ramp jump though).

[wviperw]

a. Actually, Q4 tends to have a larger scale than Q3. For example, iniitially converting one of my Q3 unfinished maps to Q4 turned out to not be such a good idea because the scale felt so small in Q4.

c. Yes, vert jumppads are still used just like in Q3.

d. No, you don't need to make your maps any more boxy in Q4 than in Q3. Yes, visportals are a slightly different way of thinking than hint brushes, but if you do it right then you shouldn't have any problems. See Kat's Q4 cave map for an example of something that is definitely *not* boxy. BTW, the biggest thing you have to worry about performance-wise, I'm sure you already know, is the lighting.

e. Yes, there is ramp jumping in Q4. You can choose to use it or not. Sometimes its nice for little trickjumps and stuff, but don't overuse it. Also, as of PR 1.2 Q4 supports jumping on normal stairs (prior to that you had to ramp-clip the stairs).

f. Uhh, not sure what you're getting at here. Strafe jumping is pretty much the same in Q4. One added element is crouch-sliding which basically lets you have "air control" on the ground if you hold crouch right before landing from a jump. This lets you navigate tight corners better in Q4, so you might build with that in mind.

Good to see you've seen the light and have decided to come over to the Q4 side AEon. :P

[AEon]

d3mol!t!on,
ah... I never strafe jumped in Q2, thus I never noted the boost ramps got you (or I forgot all about them ).

Oeloe,
read about view height of players. Personally I think Q4 feels "fast" enough. But I have seen folks tearing through the map like "stupid" ... so playing against the "leet" croud will turn out to be more and more stressful for us "slow" folks. Hmm...

Crouch Sliding... ieeeekkkkkk

Boxy Maps... I have played many hours in q4dm1 now... especially trying to understand what they did with the portals. And indeed they did everything to avoid direct lines of sight all across the map. I.e. arena 1 and 2 are pretty effectively blocked off.

wviperw,
I was actually thinking of doing a more "techy" version of q3dm7 (because I simply don't have any layout ideas). But your comment makes me think again. Though from the layout I recall from q3dm7 that should work quite well will portals. Maybe add a few more corridors.

f. What I meat was that layout was less "strafe jump" friendly, meaning less straight lines, and more sharp corners. But I seem to have been mistaken, especially since there seems to be new tricks to speed through maps and around corners.

Good to see you've seen the light and have decided to come over to the Q4 side AEon. :P

I less of seeing the light, and more like finding out how well Q4 plays via ISDN (not like crummy D3 online ), and finding out how much fun it is. Will try some experimenting with q3dm7 once Q4 arrives (ordered it 2 days ago).

How are custom bots doing for Q4 BTW?