Q4 - Editing for Dummies :)

Discussion for Level editing, modeling, programming, or any of the other technical aspects of Quake
Post Reply
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Q4 - Editing for Dummies :)

Post by AEon »

Finally I have Q4 and was in for a few shocks after testing Q4edit and the latest version of GTKradiant. I hope I am only missing something, and that I don't actually have to live with what - compared to GTKradiant v1.2.13 - I considder limitations...

GTKradiant v1.5
  • Where is the z-only view?
  • Why are none of the clips textures transparent in Q4?
  • Is there a way to tag patches? Raven uses them everywhere on floors etc a simply patch mesh that floats above the floor 1/10th or so unit. I'd like to filter those.
Q4Edit v1.2
  • Rightclick in 3dview does not allow for mouse-view... how does one get that to work? Ctrl+Right-drag strafes left/right and up/down that works fine?
  • Why are none of the clips textures transparent in Q4?
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

Q4Edit v1.2
  • Accidentally selected Grid menu, Snap to Grid, big mistake now I can't turn ON snap to grid any more. WTH?

    (Don't understand how such fundamental bugs could still be in an editor whole games are made with... hrmpf)
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

AEon wrote:hrmpf
Hmmn. I'm not sure how you managed to get Snap to Grid to turn off in Q4Edit. I tried it, just out of curiousity, and it stays checked no matter what I do. I'm pretty sure toggling it off was disabled since the grid drops down to .125 now (which might as well be off the grid anyway). I'll ask around on Monday and see if anyone has seen this, and maybe have a couple more people try it.

Re: mouselook in the camera window--it's a little different from what you might be used to, but people seemed to be fine with it while working on the game. Basically the distance from the center of the window to the mouse cursor controls movement/yaw speed and direction, and allows very fine/small movements, and you already discovered what Ctrl does. If you want to change your pitch, just use A and Z. I actually very rarely use the mouselook in the camera window anyway--I'm used to just using the keyboard 99% of the time, and using the mouse occasionally for very fine movements when I can't seem to get the camera in just the right spot--but I know a lot of people really like using the mouse.

The clip textures aren't transparent because...well...they're...not. :shrug: It's never been a problem for me...?

There's no specific filter for decals. I usually just toggle patches if I want to hide them. As an alternate, you could func_group them all periodically and then select/hide the group.
I beat the internet; the end guy is hard.
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

pjw wrote: Hmmn. I'm not sure how you managed to get Snap to Grid to turn off in Q4Edit. I tried it, just out of curiousity, and it stays checked no matter what I do. I'm pretty sure toggling it off was disabled since the grid drops down to .125 now (which might as well be off the grid anyway). I'll ask around on Monday and see if anyone has seen this, and maybe have a couple more people try it.
The problem I had was that it kept being checked, but would not turn on the grid again either. I also tried to turn on a larger grid, should that have been the problem, e.g. the 4-key to no avail. Will test renaming the editor .cfg file and hope that resets things.

Re: mouselook in the camera window--it's a little different from what you might be used to, but people seemed to be fine with it while working on the game. Basically the distance from the center of the window to the mouse cursor controls movement/yaw speed and direction, and allows very fine/small movements, and you already discovered what Ctrl does. If you want to change your pitch, just use A and Z. I actually very rarely use the mouselook in the camera window anyway--I'm used to just using the keyboard 99% of the time, and using the mouse occasionally for very fine movements when I can't seem to get the camera in just the right spot--but I know a lot of people really like using the mouse.
For me flymode is mapping dream-mode... And to me it is natural to simply fly where I need to be, and especially look where I want to directly, without cluncky keys. But I assumed that the professional mappers obviously are even more hardcore :)
The clip textures aren't transparent because...well...they're...not. :shrug: It's never been a problem for me...?
I was probably extra confused because I was looking at q3dm1, and trying to understand what was done in the map. And all the clipping was on.

What I am wondering is if one could simply make a copy of the "shaders" (no idea what exactly Q4 does) and hopefully there is a setting for the radiant transparency. That way I could build my own set of tranparent clippings. Would that be possible?

There's no specific filter for decals. I usually just toggle patches if I want to hide them. As an alternate, you could func_group them all periodically and then select/hide the group.
At times like this "real grouping" into names categories would be really nice. Far Cry's Sandbox has it, but ironically I never used it there ;)...

I take it grouping in Q4 is not as problematic as in Q3A with q2map2, where grouping actually told the render code to "group" e.g. patches and brushes together for consistant lighting?

Thanx for the help.
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

BTW: Just renamed the editor.cfg and ran editor again, alas that did not help. Snap to Grid still did not work.

Just ran the editor in my clean install (duplicate of the original install), ran quake4.exe and then typed editor from the console. Snap to Grid works here.

NOW it works. I used the clean install's editor.cfg file, in my mapping folder, and now snap to grid works. I compared the .cfg files and could not find the what the problem might be. Something obviously was shot in the .cfg file.

P.S.: I have the "buggy" and the working .cfg files here, should that be interest for some programmer.

Very very strange bug.

Note to Self: NEVER ever mess with Q4Edit's Grid menu, Snap to Grid !!!
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

If you don't mind, either post or put up a .zip of the two .cfgs? I'm curious...

Re: clip, you realize, I guess, that you can just turn it off via the filter...it seems like Q4 edit cam *should* handle transparency--it obviously does in render mode. :) You should be able to make your own versions of the materials and add a different/altered editorimage. Of course, anyone loading up your map would have troubles if they didn't have the same images.

Re: grouping the patches, I just meant for utility while you were working on the map. I probably wouldn't leave it that way, but off the top of my head, I don't *think* it would cause any problems, unless the func_groups origin ended up in the void...
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

pjw wrote:If you don't mind, either post or put up a .zip of the two .cfgs? I'm curious...
Sent you an email on this. Alas I presently can't host a file in my private pq folder for download.

pjw wrote:Re: clip, you realize, I guess, that you can just turn it off via the filter...it seems like Q4 edit cam *should* handle transparency--it obviously does in render mode. :) You should be able to make your own versions of the materials and add a different/altered editorimage. Of course, anyone loading up your map would have troubles if they didn't have the same images.
Well the images I would keep the same. But the materials, if I understand things correctly would have to supersede the originals. Might be interesting to put all this into a small z-mapediting.pk4. That way if the pk4 is missing all should be well and the default clips are used.

But you are right in render mode all this is no problem, same is true with turning them off. At times I like to see what is behind clips, to better be able to judge how large the clips are. In my own maps this would probably not actually be relevant, but since I am trying to understand the retail maps, the transparency - at least for me - would be an additional diagnostic tool.

pjw wrote:Re: grouping the patches, I just meant for utility while you were working on the map. I probably wouldn't leave it that way, but off the top of my head, I don't *think* it would cause any problems, unless the func_groups origin ended up in the void...
Ah... good tip. Just noted that Q4Edit actually has a Group tab in the "entity window". Almost made me hope grouping was manageable?
tequila!
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 25, 2001 7:00 am

Post by tequila! »

pjw wrote:unless the func_groups origin ended up in the void...
Most any entity, maybe all of them, can have the key noFlood set to 1 if it is out in the void. Not sure if it is even an issue with func_groups.

---

If I recall DoomEdit / QuakeEdit have problems showing the grid if AA or anisotropic filtering are turned on, or maybe just one of those. I never use those anyway except for screenshots so my memory is hazy.

---

The "group tab" baffles me.
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

tequila! wrote: If I recall DoomEdit / QuakeEdit have problems showing the grid if AA or anisotropic filtering are turned on, or maybe just one of those. I never use those anyway except for screenshots so my memory is hazy.
Recently added some info to Kat's site. There have been reports that AA can cause weird crashes with QuakeEdit and definately blur the grid. I have not heard anything about AF causing problems. I have AA off.
pjw
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 7:00 am

Post by pjw »

AEon wrote:
pjw wrote:If you don't mind, either post or put up a .zip of the two .cfgs? I'm curious...
Sent you an email on this.
I took a few minutes this morning to check this out, and it looks like your grid problem was totally unrelated to the "snap to grid" setting in the menu (which can't be turned off).

In the messed up .cfg you have sett radiant_NoClamp "1" . This setting is accessed via Preferences ("Don't clamp plane points"). I renamed my config and used the messed up one, then just went in and re-checked that setting, and everything snapped to grid just fine. :) (And yeah, I've never turned that off before either...)

I'm guessing that you toggled that setting at some point, about the same time you tried unchecking snap to grid?

Anyway, no problems with snap to grid. :)
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

Ah...

At some point I had sett radiant_NoClamp "1" turned on. For a q3a map that made sense for some reason. Possibly, this is very broken.

Hmmm... will test this and see if you are indeed right. Thanx for checking anyway :)
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

Going from GTKradiant v1.2.13 to the latest GTkradiant or Q3Edit is still a shock... things not working (Q4Edit's buggy way of showing textures, i.e. you added a new texture from materials folder, but is does *not* show up in the textures panel) etc., e.g.

Selected brushes can normally be nudged via Alt + Cursor-Keys, but for some strange reason Q4Edit does *not* nudge by grid increments, but by the smallest grid unit possible (AFAICT).

Is there some way to make Q4Edit use the current grid, i.e. the good old 8 unit grid (4-key).
Kat
Posts: 952
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 8:00 am

Post by Kat »

The normal 1,2, 3 etc keys work for grid but you've got to make sure you don';t accidently hit the Shift-lock key otherwsie they don't do anything.
[url=https://www.katsbits.com/tutorials#q3w]Tutorials, tools and resources[/url]
AEon
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:00 am

Post by AEon »

Kat wrote:The normal 1,2, 3 etc keys work for grid but you've got to make sure you don';t accidently hit the Shift-lock key otherwsie they don't do anything.
Hmm... the problem is not the grid, but the strange way brushes etc. get nudges around via Alt + Cursor keys?!
Post Reply