Q4 Alpha rises from the dead - pjw4tourney1

[pjw]

I posted this about six months ago as a general layout test of a tourney map with a very vertical and kind of funky layout mixed with a bunch of tricky movement...and then the first Q4 patch came out, and something subtle changed in the physics, making a spectacularly cool and crazy crouch-slide trick go away entirely. :icon33:

And I was sad. And didn't touch the map again until a few days ago, when I got the urge, loaded up some bots, and decided the map was still cool.

So. Some of you have seen this before. Apologies. I've changed a few minor things (ammo placement and the like), and added a connection and modified a few bits here and there, and added another way to reach RA to make up for the broken crouch-slide trick. :icon27:

The cool sky is courtesy of Hipshot.

I'm looking for any feedback people might have on layout and item placement before I decide on textures, start on the beta, and generally get back into the swing of things.

Screenies:







Download (Fileplanet--3 meg)

Scourge34-Is-Cool-Mirror

[maz0r]

I ever wondered what happend to that baby. I remember how I practised this crouch-slide to the red armor, to get a cookie from you as reward And I even found a way you were not aware of. Shame that this cool thing had to be stripped, no way to bring it back? It was kinda awesome how you could reach the ra from several locations in the map and surprise your opponent.

Sadly since my HDD died and my PC is still down, I have no Q4 installed at the moment. And my notebook is not really fast enough

So I hope it's still that different map it was before and will be finished soon

[pjw]

Shame that this cool thing had to be stripped, no way to bring it back?

Nope. It's gone.

I'll hopefully have a solid beta for this in a few weeks--it's pretty similar to what it was. Now to make it better.

[GODLIKE]

I ran around this one, and I have to confess that I don't "get" this map. I found the extreme verticality too disorienting, and that I didn't find it "fun" to pogo around this map. (Also, the chicken wire thing doesn't turn my crank at all.. I just felt constantly hedged in with no sense of movement.)

However, I acknowlege that we tend to make maps "for ourselves and the people we know" most of the time. I don't "get" kat's maps either, and lots of people dig them.

I'll try to form some intelligent feedback, though, cos I enjoyed "high and dry" for FFA and I realize this tourney map is an alpha:

Some of the ledges (the armour shards above the HB ammo?) are just kind of hard to get to considering the level of reward.

A lot of people have stopped ramp-clipping stairs, since PR 1.2 (1.1?) changes the previous "awkwardness" of stairs. Maybe make the stairwells back into ramps, so people know what to expect when jumping? Some are more obvious than others, but especially that one above the tele.. I was not expecting to be able to jump back up.

Feel free to prove me wrong. It's ultimately your map, of course. :icon25:

[phantazm11]

Reminds me of the top few floors of an unfinished skyscraper

I think the layout is pretty smooth. Plenty of connectivity and LOTS of vertical action. Like Godlike, I thought that the extreme vertical nature of the map was a turn off. But when I ran around it a second time, it didn't bother me so badly.

I like the floor grates (screen 4) and the MH room a lot. The only thing I really didn't like was the "door to nowhere" at the top of the level. Seems to me like there should at least be some goodie to grab up by that tiny window?

Great use of shadows so far. I can't wait to see what kind of visuals you have planned for the map

phantazm11

[pjw]

the chicken wire thing doesn't turn my crank at all

Do you mean the visual as well, or just "oh, I can't go that way"? The visual will change, probably to bars or somesuch, but the blockage probably won't, just because I like the idea of being able to see/guard/threaten an area, but not be able to get to it directly...

Some of the ledges (the armour shards above the HB ammo?) are just kind of hard to get to considering the level of reward.

Yeah, that particular ledge was sort of a last-minute addition, and I hate it already. I've decided that I'm going to redo connectivity a bit in that area; there needs to be another way back out of MH other than dropping down the odd stairway/shaft o' clumsiness. :icon27:

A lot of people have stopped ramp-clipping stairs, since PR 1.2 (1.1?) changes the previous "awkwardness" of stairs. Maybe make the stairwells back into ramps, so people know what to expect when jumping? Some are more obvious than others, but especially that one above the tele.. I was not expecting to be able to jump back up.

Hmmn. This is good feedback. I'll try mixing it up, and changing the stars to ramps when a jump is optimal and see how it feels for beta. Thanks for giving it a look.

The only thing I really didn't like was the "door to nowhere" at the top of the level. Seems to me like there should at least be some goodie to grab up by that tiny window?

Heh. You're not the first person to gripe about this, and I think it's time I started listening. I was trying to keep the top of the map pretty bare, since someone up here will have the tactical advantage anyway, but I suspect I overdid it. I'll see if I can move something good up there by the door (RL?) and also do something about the little window ledge. Thanks!

[GODLIKE]

the chicken wire thing doesn't turn my crank at all

Do you mean the visual as well, or just "oh, I can't go that way"? The visual will change, probably to bars or somesuch, but the blockage probably won't, just because I like the idea of being able to see/guard/threaten an area, but not be able to get to it directly...

(I've changed my mind about WHAT I don't like about it three times now.. heh.) I think it's the visual I really don't like. AND, I wanted to be able to strafe across to the pipe-ramp thingie..

[Kaz]

Had some fun romping about on this level, felt very pjw-y =D

I rather liked the huge amount of distance the JP's cover, and movement overall felt alot better to me than alot of the stock q4 maps, much more like q3. I didn't like the presence of bars in front of the YA, but I can see why you might have done so.

Sorry for the lack of suggestions, q4 gameplay still isn't my thing (especially without bots).

[pjw]

q4 gameplay still isn't my thing (especially without bots).

You can get very functional bots (Sabot) here: Alpha 10

Thanks for jumping around the map! (And thanks for the clarification, GODLIKE.)

[wviperw]

I'll go straight to the feedback:


-Think this was already mentioned, but lose that armor shard ledge. Unless your intention is to piss people off. :P


-I'd try taking away the bars so that you can access the YA from both sides. Would make for more interesting fights w/ one guy coming from one side and the other from the other side.


-Not a big fan of things on crate just out of reach. Yes, I know you can ramp jump to it, but it is just annoying IMO. Also, the ceiling is in the way from landing on the 50h from the JP anyway, which is also annoying. I've got different plans for this area anyway though...


-Hmm, not convinced about the RG area. Seems like a campers nest since you can just snipe away from behind the fence. I'm thinking maybe you should get rid of this room all together and move rail somewhere else.


-Again, not a big fan of "puny" items getting put in hard to reach places like this 50h. Maybe if it was a powerup or something. I'd just lose the perch altogether.

-Oh, and I'd consider making the fencing into glass so you can't just camp here with rail and pick the other guy off. Make it so you can see the other guy through the glass but can't do anything about it to create that suspense.


-This area is filled to the brim with stairs. I feel like its gonna be too much. I'd think about redoing the entire area and maybe opening things up a bit more so its not just a bunch of staired hallways.


-These items behind tele don't seem worth the time and effort to ignore the tele, walk behind it, and grab them.


-I'd maybe level off this area so you don't have that ramp that takes you higher but just a flat floor. Lots of ramped floors everywhere tend to make movement funky w/ Q4's physics IMO.


-Ok, here's the GL/50h area again. If you raised that ceiling quite a bit, I think this would make a nice area for YA or MH. Right now, this side of the map is empty.


-Maybe extend the ledges further along the length of the wall so you don't have to pixel jump it.


-I'm standing w/ my back to GL. This area seems too tight what with the big gaping hole in the floor along with its 32 unit trim. Give me more space to roam free and not get caught on trim.

General Suggestions:
-Think this was already mentioned, but instead of rampclipping entire stairways, just create ramped trim on the sides and don't clip the stairs at all. This will create a better visual cue for the player to know he can ramp off the trim.

-Item placement: I'd maybe try removing RG room, putting RG in MH spot, MH in YA spot, and YA in GL spot. Optionally, you could add an additional YA in corner of the map where the MH currently resides if things need balancing.

[pjw]

Wow. Thanks for the great feedback--I don't agree with all of it 100%, but there's some great stuff there to think about. Specific things addressed below.

Think this was already mentioned, but lose that armor shard ledge. Unless your intention is to piss people off. :P

It's gone already.

I'd try taking away the bars so that you can access the YA from both sides. Would make for more interesting fights w/ one guy coming from one side and the other from the other side.

I'm going to combine this with your suggestions re: item placement for a different version of the map and see how it feels. (IOW, this will be the MH spot.) We'll see...

Your comments about reducing the clutter and amount of high trim are good...I think...I'll see what I can do there. I'm not sure about the glass vs. shoot-through-something. I'll give it some thought, but there are at least a couple of places where I'm pretty sure I want to make an area vulnerable to weapons fire...

This area is filled to the brim with stairs. I feel like its gonna be too much. I'd think about redoing the entire area and maybe opening things up a bit more so its not just a bunch of staired hallways.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing here actually. I'll work on it.

Ok, here's the GL/50h area again. If you raised that ceiling quite a bit, I think this would make a nice area for YA or MH. Right now, this side of the map is empty.

This doesn't quite go with your item placement suggestion below...but I'm going to play around with it and see if I can combine the two somehow.

Maybe extend the ledges further along the length of the wall so you don't have to pixel jump it.

Oh, alright. Maybe a little.

Great and very thoughtful feedback. Thanks!