So if I read this correctly (police shooting)

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:21 am

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2680641&page=1

Someone tries to run over a cop after some sort of bar squabble, said someone gets gunned down, Al Sharpton throws a rally?
I may be reading this wrong, the article focuses more on the media frenzy than the actual altercation, but it sounds as though the cops may have fired too many times, but were justified in opening fire?

At any rate, if the people that were shot were white this wouldn't be news, and Al Sharpton's a dickhead.

Post by **mjrpes** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:27 am

why did the guy ram into the unmarked police car? then back up... and then ram it again?!

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:56 am

Sounds to me like the guy in the car was trying to run over everyone in his path. If I had a gun and a car was trying to run me over, I'd empty every round I had into it to make sure it stopped.

And yes, Al Sharpton is a moron. "No justice, no peace". What is this fool trying to do, start a riot and get more people killed? That idiot needs a fresh bullet in the skull.

Post by **Pooinyourmouth** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:14 am

Not a fresh bullet. He needs one dipped in aids. Just incase he should live throught the initial shot.

Post by **tnf** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:22 am

Yea, the initial stories from teh victims' families and friends was basically that they were simply walking out of the club giving each other high fives when they were mowed down by the cops for no reason.

I knew that there was going to be a lot more to this once the facts started coming out (but i don't know enough yet to come to a real conclusion about the actions of the police). And the use of the car as a weapon would explain the number of shots fired, becuase if someone is trying to run you over its not like you can pop off one shot and just hope you got them...you'd shoot until you emptied your clip and the car stopped moving I'd guess.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:22 am

I feel really bad that black America has this retarded, asshole, failed pimp, wannabe coke dealer, shyster shithead as a leader. He lost any sort of credibility he had after the Tawana Brawley debacle, and still people love him. More and more shit has come to light about that lying assfuck, yet no one dismisses him as the shitdribble that he is.
Well, Marion fucking Barry got re-elected after getting caught on tape smoking crack, so I suppose Al's continued popularity is no surprise.
Fucking Jesse Jackson's no better, "ministering" to Bill Clinton during Monica-gate with his damn pregnant mistress sitting right next to him.

Back to the shooting, I find the quoted bit about the NYPD's rules regarding deadly force and vehicles a bit confusing. Why would you have to be under threat of deadly force from something other than a moving vehicle before opening fire? Like YGP said, if someone's trying to run me down, I'm hosing that fucking car until it stops moving.
Anyone else read that quote differently?

@tnf: Yup.

Post by **andyman** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:25 am

Nightshade wrote:retarded, asshole, failed pimp, wannabe coke dealer, shyster shithead

yet they call him 'reverand'

n1gga plz

Post by **menkent** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:29 am

well, it looks a bit odd that one of the cops emptied his clip into the car (16 rounds) then popped in a fresh clip and emptied that one, too. i'm not saying it might not have been justified, but when they still haven't come up with any crimes to charge the guys with it seems like a strange decision to go bonny&clyde on them.
maybe some local cops who have been trying to shut down a strip joint for years decide to hassle some guys coming out late at night and they're too drunk/scared to react properly when an undercover cop starts shit with them (maybe steps in front of their car to stop them?)... next thing you know there are 51 shots fired into (well, at... most missed) a car full of unarmed men.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 am

The law seems to read that way, which seems a bit stupid. If the car is moving towards you, you should be able to shoot it until it stops. If it's driving away, that's a different story.

I'm sure it would be all better to know that the police officer stopped shooting at the vehicle when it started moving, only to be run over shortly after.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:37 am

menkent wrote:well, it looks a bit odd that one of the cops emptied his clip into the car (16 rounds) then popped in a fresh clip and emptied that one, too. i'm not saying it might not have been justified, but when they still haven't come up with any crimes to charge the guys with it seems like a strange decision to go bonny&clyde on them.
maybe some local cops who have been trying to shut down a strip joint for years decide to hassle some guys coming out late at night and they're too drunk/scared to react properly when an undercover cop starts shit with them (maybe steps in front of their car to stop them?)... next thing you know there are 51 shots fired into (well, at... most missed) a car full of unarmed men.

It's hard to say, not having been there. I read something about a mention of a gun during the altercation, but nothing about why the dude suddenly tried to run over the undercover cop. And where did all the other cops come from? I know that a lot of police departments have shitty records when it comes to dealing with blacks, and that there have been MANY cases of racist brutality committed by the cops. I just hate seeing Al Sharpton instantly assume that that's the case in this instance. And you know that as soon as he starts spouting off, shitloads of people will have already convicted those cops...

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:38 am

andyman wrote:
Nightshade wrote:retarded, asshole, failed pimp, wannabe coke dealer, shyster shithead
yet they call him 'reverand'

n1gga plz

Where exactly is his church? Where's Jesse's church?

Post by **andyman** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:41 am

Nightshade wrote:
andyman wrote:
Nightshade wrote:retarded, asshole, failed pimp, wannabe coke dealer, shyster shithead
yet they call him 'reverand'

n1gga plz
Where exactly is his church? Where's Jesse's church?

I hope that's retorical, i have no idea. I was wondering what the hell makes him a high and mighty reverand.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:44 am

It's sort of rhetorical, neither of them have churches. I'm sure that they're both ordained ministers. Ordained by who, I have no idea. It just strikes me as a convenient title to hold. Hell, I hold FAA Airframe and Powerplant licenses, but I don't introduce myself as an A&P or insist that I be referred to as one.

Post by **andyman** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:45 am

Nightshade wrote:It's sort of rhetorical, neither of them have churches. I'm sure that they're both ordained ministers. Ordained by who, I have no idea. It just strikes me as a convenient title to hold. Hell, I hold FAA Airframe and Powerplant licenses, but I don't introduce myself as an A&P or insist that I be referred to as one.

The fact that the title is based on a beleif makes it even less credible, you had to actually work your ass off for your titles.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:47 am

Nightshade wrote:
menkent wrote:well, it looks a bit odd that one of the cops emptied his clip into the car (16 rounds) then popped in a fresh clip and emptied that one, too. i'm not saying it might not have been justified, but when they still haven't come up with any crimes to charge the guys with it seems like a strange decision to go bonny&clyde on them.
maybe some local cops who have been trying to shut down a strip joint for years decide to hassle some guys coming out late at night and they're too drunk/scared to react properly when an undercover cop starts shit with them (maybe steps in front of their car to stop them?)... next thing you know there are 51 shots fired into (well, at... most missed) a car full of unarmed men.
It's hard to say, not having been there. I read something about a mention of a gun during the altercation, but nothing about why the dude suddenly tried to run over the undercover cop. And where did all the other cops come from? I know that a lot of police departments have shitty records when it comes to dealing with blacks, and that there have been MANY cases of racist brutality committed by the cops. I just hate seeing Al Sharpton instantly assume that that's the case in this instance. And you know that as soon as he starts spouting off, shitloads of people will have already convicted those cops...

The artical said they were working an undercover detail to bust the strip joint.

To comment on the 51 rounds fired. Does anyone know how long it takes to shoot that many rounds? Cops usually carry extended clips with 16 to 18 rounds per full load. If you've got 5 Cops involved, it wouldn't take but about 10 seconds or so for that many rounds to be fired. Because you can fire rounds out of a semi-automatic pistol about as fast as you can count.

Post by **Pooinyourmouth** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:50 am

Shooting at a person in a car is not like the movies. Most of the bullets fired into a car are less than lethal, or never make it to the target at all. Pistols make it all that much harder. Less velocity and a rounded tip make it almost usless against a car. Your only real hope is to get a shot in the window, and even then you'll want to make it the side windows, otherwise the windshield may slow the bullet to much to be lethal (thanks to shatter proofing).

EDIT: what I'm saying is armed with what I know I would have unloaded as many bullets as I could, making sure that person was no longer a threat to me.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:51 am

YourGrandpa wrote:

The artical said they were working an undercover detail to bust the strip joint.

To comment on the 51 rounds fired. Does anyone know how long it takes to shoot that many rounds? Cops usually carry extended clips with 16 to 18 rounds per full load. If you've got 5 Cops involved, it wouldn't take but about 10 seconds or so for that many rounds to be fired. Because you can fire rounds out of a semi-automatic pistol about as fast as you can count.

OK, I guess I skimmed over that part.
Yeah, it doesn't take long at all to bust off that many rounds. I don't know about cops carrying extended mags, but I used to have a Glock 19 with a 15 round clip. I could empty that thing in a heartbeat, so no, I don' think that it's unreasonable for 5 cops shooting in defense of a brother officer (assuming that's what happened) to go through 51 rounds total.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:01 am

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:02 am

Pooinyourmouth wrote:Shooting at a person in a car is not like the movies. Most of the bullets fired into a car are less than lethal, or never make it to the target at all. Pistols make it all that much harder. Less velocity and a rounded tip make it almost usless against a car. Your only real hope is to get a shot in the window, and even then you'll want to make it the side windows, otherwise the windshield may slow the bullet to much to be lethal (thanks to shatter proofing).

EDIT: what I'm saying is armed with what I know I would have unloaded as many bullets as I could, making sure that person was no longer a threat to me.

I would shoot until the car stopped or I ran out of ammo.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:14 am

hey would you shoot until you ran out of ammo?

Post by **R00k** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:28 am

It sounds like the guy was drunk - he ran into the undercover guy, over a curb, hit a gate, and a cop car twice.

New York's law does sound like it says they can't consider a moving vehicle as 'deadly force' being used against them.

I don't understand that though. In my opinion, if the guy actually ran into a cop with his car, then the cop had to have thought that he was being attacked with deadly force. It's not like he was just revving the engine or flashing his lights at him.

I think the cop was justified in shooting. And, if the guy was still trying to run him over when the other cops came around, then they would have been justified to shoot as well. Again, IMHO.

But how can we know exactly what happened.... it sounds like the two parties' stories are as different as night and day.

Post by **stocktroll** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:35 am

i dont remember blacks electing them idiots like sharpton and jesse jackson as their official spokesmen, i certainly didnt

Post by **SplishSplash** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:30 am

well I think the whole thing is just about the "only use deadly force if (and only as long as) your life is directly threatened." which I personally think is a good rule.

When they shoot the car while the car is trying to get away, all they're trying to do is get back at the driver (unless shooting to stop a fugitive is somehow ok in the US).
And revenge isn't part of a cop's job.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:10 am

I agree completely, but that's not the scenario under discussion. It's the "shoot at the car that's about to run you down until it stops moving" scenario.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:26 pm

It’s assholes like Sharpton that want to make this into a race issue to feed their sick agenda. Like we're all suppose to believe that these 5 cops got up that morning, put on their gun and said I'm gonna kill me some niggers today. Sharpton is a moronic attention whore. Why can't these people attending his rallies see that he's just breeding more hate and fueling the separatist fire. They should stone this idiot every time he shows up.