ololThe Too Human developer points to Gears of War as evidence that Epic Games was withholding game-specific enhancements to the Unreal engine in order to give its own games preference.
Epic sued by licencee developer
Epic sued by licencee developer
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/19/silic ... dequacies/
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AmIdYfReAk
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I haven't seen that many UE3 games that have had this problem to be honest... In fact this is the first? Every other UE3 game has been perfectly fine, and its natural to say it would take longer on PS3 to come out than 360... Its a new, harder to program for hardware.
It sounds a lot to me like they are getting pissed with people constantly asking them why its taken to long, coupled with the fact the E3 showing was utter, utter, cold hard SHITE... So they are now getting all defensive and blaming what they can.
To be honest, who fucking CARES if the build they got wasn't as spiffy as Gears of War? If thats the case... Fucking tweak it until it is, you not only have your own set of "more" coders than Epic does, but you also have Epic helping you out.
I hate to bring Q2E/OverDose up in this, but Berserks just one guy, and he coded some things that put most games to shame before even Doom 3 came out. Fuck the engine we have right now is so advanced, and there isn't much help for what hes doing. But hes one guy who does it in his spare time, and we manage.
Yet this full team of devs, DOUBLE what Epic has, cant do it...?
Sounds just way to much to me like they are bitching at Epic for mistakes they themselves made...
It sounds a lot to me like they are getting pissed with people constantly asking them why its taken to long, coupled with the fact the E3 showing was utter, utter, cold hard SHITE... So they are now getting all defensive and blaming what they can.
To be honest, who fucking CARES if the build they got wasn't as spiffy as Gears of War? If thats the case... Fucking tweak it until it is, you not only have your own set of "more" coders than Epic does, but you also have Epic helping you out.
I hate to bring Q2E/OverDose up in this, but Berserks just one guy, and he coded some things that put most games to shame before even Doom 3 came out. Fuck the engine we have right now is so advanced, and there isn't much help for what hes doing. But hes one guy who does it in his spare time, and we manage.
Yet this full team of devs, DOUBLE what Epic has, cant do it...?
Sounds just way to much to me like they are bitching at Epic for mistakes they themselves made...
The article mentions delays of other UE3 games. Those delays could be related to the same problem.o'dium wrote:I haven't seen that many UE3 games that have had this problem to be honest... In fact this is the first? Every other UE3 game has been perfectly fine, and its natural to say it would take longer on PS3 to come out than 360... Its a new, harder to program for hardware.
Could be, Denis Dyack (president of Silicon Knights) has been blurting out nothing but excuses lately.o'dium wrote: It sounds a lot to me like they are getting pissed with people constantly asking them why its taken to long, coupled with the fact the E3 showing was utter, utter, cold hard SHITE... So they are now getting all defensive and blaming what they can.
Apparantly the SDK they got was unworkable. It's hard developing a game if you don't have a good stable SDK to work with.o'dium wrote: To be honest, who fucking CARES if the build they got wasn't as spiffy as Gears of War? If thats the case... Fucking tweak it until it is, you not only have your own set of "more" coders than Epic does, but you also have Epic helping you out.
Errr, o'dium, this is about more than just coding. It's about project management. But you'll learn about that once you get a job more interesting than counter clerk at a videogame storeo'dium wrote: I hate to bring Q2E/OverDose up in this, but Berserks just one guy, and he coded some things that put most games to shame before even Doom 3 came out. Fuck the engine we have right now is so advanced, and there isn't much help for what hes doing. But hes one guy who does it in his spare time, and we manage.
Yet this full team of devs, DOUBLE what Epic has, cant do it...?
Sounds just way to much to me like they are bitching at Epic for mistakes they themselves made...
I'm working on 2 NDS games and a PSP game atm sir, so, sorry to burst that bubble.
As for project management, when you are moaning about the ENGINE, and how the features they want are not there because Epic refuses to give them, or delayed in giving them, its got more to do with the fact the coders on your team are being lazy.
Sure enough if you PAY for them, then by all means, you should EXPECT them. But moaning on and on about not getting X by Y date is just a little harsh against Epic.
My point was more along the lines of other people have used UE3 and made STUNNING games BEFORE they got the Gears Of War "version" of UE3. Thats becuase the GOW version is just UE3 with a few extra programmable shaders thrown in, its not some amazing new version of the engine, its not Quake 3 Vs Doom 3. Its just a few extra tricks, that other teams who licence UE3 have had no problem adding on their own.
As for the delays of other titles... So what? Its 2007, it takes more than a group of 5 people sitting in an office to make a major next gen game. Games are delayed all the time. Or are delays now part of the Gears Of War patch that should be fixed in the next release?
As for project management, when you are moaning about the ENGINE, and how the features they want are not there because Epic refuses to give them, or delayed in giving them, its got more to do with the fact the coders on your team are being lazy.
Sure enough if you PAY for them, then by all means, you should EXPECT them. But moaning on and on about not getting X by Y date is just a little harsh against Epic.
My point was more along the lines of other people have used UE3 and made STUNNING games BEFORE they got the Gears Of War "version" of UE3. Thats becuase the GOW version is just UE3 with a few extra programmable shaders thrown in, its not some amazing new version of the engine, its not Quake 3 Vs Doom 3. Its just a few extra tricks, that other teams who licence UE3 have had no problem adding on their own.
As for the delays of other titles... So what? Its 2007, it takes more than a group of 5 people sitting in an office to make a major next gen game. Games are delayed all the time. Or are delays now part of the Gears Of War patch that should be fixed in the next release?
hey o'dium, how much work have you done on the UE3 engine?
oh, and do you have a release date for that OverDose game you're working on?
no? then STFU
oh, and do you have a release date for that OverDose game you're working on?
no? then STFU
You do realize that delays cost the developer a lot of money, do you?Sure enough if you PAY for them, then by all means, you should EXPECT them. But moaning on and on about not getting X by Y date is just a little harsh against Epic.
Hey its the fan club
OverDose is coming along great thanks. For a mod that a few guys do in our spare time, its fantastic.
Have I worked on UE3? No, I haven't, but whats that got to do with anything?
As for delays, they cost the dev of course, but does that mean the entire team needs to sit there doing nothing while they wait for the next build to come? No, it doesn't. In other words, its not Epics fault these ass clowns don't know what they are doing. They are just bitter for releasing a shoddy E3 demo and expected people to jerk off to it, but got it slapped back in their faces.
OverDose is coming along great thanks.
For a mod that a few guys do in our spare time, its fantastic. Have I worked on UE3? No, I haven't, but whats that got to do with anything?
As for delays, they cost the dev of course, but does that mean the entire team needs to sit there doing nothing while they wait for the next build to come? No, it doesn't. In other words, its not Epics fault these ass clowns don't know what they are doing. They are just bitter for releasing a shoddy E3 demo and expected people to jerk off to it, but got it slapped back in their faces.
It's your assumption that this is about a few additional features. If I read the article, then I get the impression that it's more than just a few additional features, it's about parts of the engine not working correctly. And even if it was about a few additional functions. Maybe Silicon Knights were planning on using these. The point is that SK had an agreement, a contract with Epic that they would deliver at a certain moment. Epic didn't deliver and thus breached the contract.o'dium wrote:As for delays, they cost the dev of course, but does that mean the entire team needs to sit there doing nothing while they wait for the next build to come? No, it doesn't. In other words, its not Epics fault these ass clowns don't know what they are doing. They are just bitter for releasing a shoddy E3 demo and expected people to jerk off to it, but got it slapped back in their faces.
And maybe SK did in fact suffer many delays because of this. You don't know that. So instead of saying SK are noobs who don't know what they're doing, maybe you could be a bit more tactful about it and not make such bold statements while you in fact don't know the exact details of the situation.
Hell, even I responded the same way you did. I didn't even edit it out, but after carefully reading the article I changed my mind. Sure, the article may not be the whole truth, but you can be a bit more subtle in your statements when you don't know all the facts. That goes for both you and me.
And while I'm at it, just because you make so many bold statements based on mis-information, lack of information or plain ego is why so many people thing you're annoying o'dium. Think before you speak... er.... write next time.
What does your cell phone company do if they don't get their X amount on the Y date?o'dium wrote:Sure enough if you PAY for them, then by all means, you should EXPECT them. But moaning on and on about not getting X by Y date is just a little harsh against Epic.
In North America it's all about the "holly contract". Break it, and you get burned.
I spent two years working with UE3, this lawsuit is bullshit
Epic didn't keep anything for themselves; by the time Gears shipped, it was actually about three QA revisions out of date from the current drops
Edit: if I had to guess, this is really about somebody at SK's head being on the chopping block over Too Human not being done yet, and to try and save his own skin he's trying to put the blame on Epic
Epic didn't keep anything for themselves; by the time Gears shipped, it was actually about three QA revisions out of date from the current drops
Edit: if I had to guess, this is really about somebody at SK's head being on the chopping block over Too Human not being done yet, and to try and save his own skin he's trying to put the blame on Epic
Other developers show support both for Epic and Silicone Knights regarding the lawsuit:
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=468
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=468