Halls of Intersection

Discussion for Level editing, modeling, programming, or any of the other technical aspects of Quake
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InsaneKid
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Halls of Intersection

Post by InsaneKid »

Hi, Pals! :clownboat: How are u?

My name is InsaneKid and ...yes! im one of those long-term freaks
hangin around on old q3, but new ExcessivePlus-MOD! :owned:

ive started mappin when i started studyin art (now + religion).
And after 10 years mappin (and 20 years playin Doom+Quake)
i thought, i must make a "i luv John C."-map!
Coz i LOVE him! :drool:

Mappin is my obsession, and i was always workin with "objets trouvés" or "found objects" -
besides makin my own maps <:
Well and i had an eye on that map that ive chosen for a very long time.
And thinkin about qLive and John! <3 i remembered Roman Polanski´s
"The Fearless Vampire Killers"; and an old nightmare came back into my mind.

so here it is: "Halls of Intersection"
>>>
http://www.filefront.com/14133805/Halls.pk3

Image
Last edited by InsaneKid on Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reward urself: Do GOOD!
Anwulf
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by Anwulf »

I like the lighting. Very atmospheric and it really suits the map, but it's not so dull that you strain to see where you opponents are.

The texturing and style are uniform, and again they suit the overall look of the map. I note, however, that the floor texture on the ground floor is actually from Q3TA, which is treated, as far as I remember, as a separate game. In other words, including that texture in your pk3 is a EULA violation.

But the architecture is also a little bland in places. Some rooms have a better array of decorative features; others seem not have received so much attention. By the looks of the framerate, it wouldn't hurt to add some detail such as pilasters, decorative edges to the walkways, additional columns, grills and grates, fireplaces etc. Add a few more suitable pictures. Windows that actually look outside and not just be stained-glass window textures. The arches in the quad room need to be spaced evenly because on the ground floor of that room there are gaps that need filling. You might have to do some restructuring there.

The other thing I felt about the architecture is that the rooms are boxy, although that may be alleviated by the addition of extra detail. It's also why I mentioned the windows.

Consider a custom skybox. I'm sure kell or sock must've produced something alpine and brooding that would be reminiscent of Transylvania.

There are far too many health items in the map. Too many 5 healths often clustered together, I thought. I'd reduce their number and scatter them throughout the map. It's too easy, once you're familiar with the level, to go from the RA at one end to the RA at the other and collect the MH and quad on the way. I'd remove one suit of RA and separate the MH and quad as much as possible. I'd also remove any nearby spawn points – at least the ones which are adjacent to these items. A player spawning near the MH has an instant advantage.

I'd be inclined to add at least two more bots to the .arena file. The level's too large to be satisfactory with just two of them. If you haven't done so, you might want to add botclip bridges across the lava so that the bots aren't at a disadvantage there.

Overall, the map has atmosphere and potential, but certain aspects of it need further attention.
InsaneKid
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by InsaneKid »

Thank u very much for ur reply
and suggestions, Anwulf! <:
>>>
i made some changes and updated the link!!!

Edit: The map now has twice as much details (and brushes) buttom!
And i changed the item-placement!
Last edited by InsaneKid on Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reward urself: Do GOOD!
obsidian
Posts: 10970
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by obsidian »

I agree with Anwulf that the overall theme and atmosphere is great. You just need to work on some of the details.

First impression was that the scale is a bit off as far as the size of stairs, benches, railings, etc. They are all roughly about twice as large as what feels natural.

Anwulf is also right about using Q3TA assets, it's certainly frowned upon to be distributing id Software game assets with your map. I'm sure you aren't doing this intentionally, but to be fair, I think you should swap out the texture with something else. The red glossy environment map on that floor shader doesn't quite suit your predominantly blue map anyway.
[size=85][url=http://gtkradiant.com]GtkRadiant[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com]Q3Map2[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com/docs/shader_manual/]Shader Manual[/url][/size]
InsaneKid
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by InsaneKid »

That floor-texture i dont have from TA.
Its also included in the DreamCast-MapPack!-
i like the red gloss, coz it harmonizes with the lava
and brings in the idea of blood (that i dont have in there,
coz it is a Love-theme-map on the 2nd view;
and coz of the fog the textures need either a black bg or an AlphaChannel).

The scale of walls and rooms i find ok ...dont want a UrbanTerror-map. :ninja:

i also tried to make a skybox usin the skybox-entity for the first time
(had some new ideas about it), but it didnt work with the fog!

>>>
Try to read the map!
Last edited by InsaneKid on Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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v1l3
Posts: 822
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by v1l3 »

InsaneKid wrote:That floor-texture i dont have from TA.
Its also included in the DreamCast-MapPack!
That DC mappack got those textures from TeamArena. It's kind of tricky like that. =/ I could be wrong, but I think they were allowed to use the textures for DC Mappack because it's an official mappack? ...though I've seen some other mappers using them...so I'm also confused.
Anwulf
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by Anwulf »

My suspicion is that the DC map pack is probably subject to the same EULA restrictions as Q3 and TA. Although id might've allowed certain textures to be included, it's still not permissible to redistribute individual textures.

A related case from a few years ago was the matter of modified id textures. I think that it was ruled at the time that the set of textures had to remain intact. It could be used in other maps, but you couldn't just pluck out a few textures from someone's pk3 to use in your own map.

Now to have a look at the new version of the map.
v1l3
Posts: 822
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by v1l3 »

damn..it's looking real good. I like the drop under the statue that sends you to the MH...very original
Anwulf
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by Anwulf »

Yeah, that drop to the JP to the MH was an interesting addition. I didn't notice the pit around the statue and kept trying to jump from the landing. I did think the pit, when I spotted it, was going to kill me. Anyway, the result does stop the map from being a run from one major item to another. The addition of a few more bots helps.

But I agree with Obsidian's remark about the scale of the map being a bit on the large side. I noted on this occasion more than on the previous one that the corridors are quite long with little cover. Anyone tooled up with an RG or PG is going to make life difficult for an opponent in such places. Perhaps a balcony or two, as you've used with the RG, would provide cover if it's needed.

I was also thinking about the passage where the lava pits are and wondering "Why?" (Yes, I know Q3 architecture and realism don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. :) ) It's not as if there's some major item when you reach the mid point thus making the entry and exit from the area a little difficult for a reason. Probably you can leave that particular hallway as it is. It isn't vital to change it.

The distribution of health items is a little more reasonable. I didn't feel I was hungry for more even with the increased number of bots in the map.

Good to see some extra detail, including the new windows. The alignment of the texture on those arches needs fixing, but if it's recalcitrant, you could always stick a thin brush between the column and the arch as a support for the latter so that you don't need to worry about texture alignment there. (Or you could do what you did with the arches in the quad/invis room.) A few more pictures wouldn't go amiss; perhaps portraits. Even a little more detail, something to break up the large flat expanses of wall in the map, wouldn't hurt. The gates are a nice touch, but it'd look better if you could restructure the arches so that they fit the gates better instead of the gate emerging from stone work.

Something seems wrong with the new skybox unless it's the way it's being rendered by my graphics card. At least one face of the sky seems lighter than the others and not everything seems to line up. Don't know what's up with that.

Think about adding a JP in the LG room now that the MH has been moved out of there.

Which reminds me. What's going on with the TP? I'm wondering whether you've set the destination target too far back, but it's almost as if I'm double teleporting because I get a very brief flash of the back of the tp texture before I land.
InsaneKid
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by InsaneKid »

:D ur teleported thru a tele-tube, it also makes a sound when u pass thru it.

The bots do very fine in that lava-hallway;
its the idea of a combat-gauntlet-area ("American Gladiators") :
Ive seen the bots jumpin over the pits, even in frag-action!
(tested on TDM yet?)

The health-thing was a lil tricky, till i decided to move the LG ...
then came the mega at RG + the new Jpad (in this order)! <:
Coz i saw, that the RA-room can only be "through-room",
so i smashed one of the platforms and placed the RA there only!

And since ID is usin more TrickJumps and DeFrag-elements,
i can have no Jpad at LG too! >:)
Reward urself: Do GOOD!
Anwulf
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by Anwulf »

InsaneKid wrote::D ur teleported thru a tele-tube, it also makes a sound when u pass thru it.
It all happens too fast for it to register, unlike the tubes in Vortex Portal. I did think there was possible some intermediate place during the process, but it was impossible to tell. Oh well.
v1l3
Posts: 822
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:00 am

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by v1l3 »

yeah...it kind of reminds me of your q3tourney1 remake that you had up at ..::LvL
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monaster
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by monaster »

And in case this wouldn't affect your intended gameplay too much (in a bad way) clip the big metal gate. It just felt awkward to walk right through it. Nice map by the way, I really like the lighting in some spots. The woman's portrait is a part of Füssli's famous painting always liked that one and thus immediately had to think of it when I played your map. One last thing: Consider changing your .arena file because the lvlshot doesn't appear in the skirmish or single player menues whatsoever. Gonna try it again once I'm home but I remember there's been a (slight) problem with that (I'm just too lazy to type in /map halls :D )
If you are caught on a golf course during a storm and are afraid of lightning, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron.
-Lee Trevino, golfer who actually has been struck by lightning.
InsaneKid
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Halls of Intersection

Post by InsaneKid »

hm, the arena-file should work, strange.-
About the metal-doors i didnt know if i should make them solid,
but i was sure, someone would complain about this deathTrap! :tomato:

EDIT:
Yes! "Pro-trn1" is very spooky too!-
maybe i should rework the light? <:
Reward urself: Do GOOD!
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