Rage

[obsidian]

Here are some new screenshots and a PDF of a Siggraph presentation by Jean-Paul van Waveren.

Seriously blow-your-socks-off screenshots!

[Hipshot]

Yeah I saw those. Looks very good. To be honest, it looks as good as everything else, when I see it in motion, then I can see if it looks better than other things.

I'm all up though, iD's still the best. I wonder how the MP will be in this. I wonder if it will be possible to play a death match similar to "Quake". And also, I really hope that they still are in for modding and level editing as they usually are...

[Kaz]

At the very least I'm just happy it's not super dark

[phantazm11]

At the very least I'm just happy it's not super dark

...and there's water!

[fKd]

wonder what it is gonna be like to edit.. seen some videos and it looks quite easy. hahaha. but we all know that is never the case.

[jal_]

Scary level of detail.

[phantazm11]

wonder what it is gonna be like to edit.. seen some videos and it looks quite easy. hahaha. but we all know that is never the case.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure Rage is going to be that mod friendly after all...Carmack interview on youtube. Check it out from 1:26 to 2:30. Not exactly sure how old this video is though.

[A13C]

Yeah.
He's telling that R.A.G.E. will require modders to design whole things, that is, from the choice of real materials such as steal and wood to the consideration of their real physics.

So if a modder tries to design a steal object by using chain saw in a devlopment kit, he fails.
Even if he could manage to create a visually impressive car, it might not run at all due to the lack of consideration of real physics.

about ss:
The sky is telling as if something is about to happen.

[obsidian]

That's not what Carmack said at all, he didn't even talk about physics. And as a rhetorical question, aren't you banned?

[fKd]

i watched those dev videos over at gametrailers.com showing the tools in action and it looked quite easy. but yeah.. time will tell

[mrd]

Looks pretty sweet. I remember hearing a while ago that you could modify the game whilst people are in it, running around and playing, and that the players could see the editors' changes in real-time as they play. I wonder if this is still the case? Sounds pretty neat either way.

[obsidian]

I don't think that's possible, there is still some compiling that needs to be done before it is fully playable. What was hinted at was that the creation tools were networked, so you could have multiple people working on the same level and changes would be updated in the editor for all designers.

[mrd]

Ahhh okay, that's still pretty cool though

[fKd]

no dynamic time of day seems like a bit of a bummer

[Hipshot]

When I was younger I though that a dynamic day cycle was the shit, these days and in a game that seems to be like rage, it doesn't really matter I think. Maybe it's a game thing too, not the engine, I'm sure iD can do it if they want it, maybe it just is too expensive to have as a major feature in the game.


I can see a dialogue with my younger self:

Playing Half-Life, walking on the cliffs watching the far landscape
(Younger me) -Wouldn't it be great if I could just see the sun set here and the shadows becomes long and some birds fly of into the sun set.
(Today me) -Yea, you wanna keep standing on this cliff side for what - 6 more hours? - that's nice. I'm just gonna go finish the game.

[g0th-]

I'm excited about Rage those screens looks awesome. I can't even Imagen how nice it must be to work without the need to tile and reuse textures. especially for terrain where you could sculpt a whole mountain and just bake it down and make all the normal map vectors fits the low poly perfectly.

and yeah, agreed that day/night cycle is not that important but it's probably possible to do it by hacks with dynamic lights just like it was done in doom3.

[phantazm11]

Actually JC mentions the day/night cycle in one of the videos that I linked to. Bsically they didn't want to do it because of all of the static lights and baked-in shadows. That, and the fact that one scene might look great during the day, but when it was dark, it might not look all that spectacular, and things (visual clues, important gameplay-related details, etc) might get lost in the gloom. Just the gist of it of course.

[obsidian]

Ermmm... when Carmack talks about day/night cycles, he was talking about Enemy Territory Quake Wars, which was initially tested with that feature. But Splash Damage found that it was hindering their gameplay since certain objective elements wouldn't be as visible in certain times of the day. The artists also hated it since there would always be some time of day when the lighting would look like ass.

I don't see any mention of dynamic day/night cycles for Rage.

[fKd]

you need to watch it again, he used that example to backup why they were not going with a dynamic day/night light cycle.

[phantazm11]

Could you imagine something like Oblivion on this Tech?

[o'dium]

What, you mean with more than 4 faces/voices in the entire game...?

As amazing as the game was it always puzzled me how a game with a face generator only ever had a few faces...

[fKd]

long time no see o'dium, any new screens of ya work around?

[Castle]

Could you imagine something like Oblivion on this Tech?

honestly
if you were somehow able to combine Ids fluid movement and navigation into oblivion or fallout 3 it would be spectacular.

With that said
I would actually be really impressed to see many of the features of the constructionset/Geck in a id based engine though. Their dialog and quest scripting systems are extremely powerful and intuitive allowing for some very interesting possibilities.

[AEon]

I have the feeling - from looking at the massive amounts of detail in the screenshots - that id tech 5 is definitely going pro-artists, contra-armature "hacks". I.e. only vaguely "artistic" folks, like myself, might be able to make maps look quite "interesting" by clever abstractions in design, creating a convincing, though far from realistic worlds. With Rage it seems you can no longer cover up a lack in artistic skills, because it seems to be based on reality too much.

Is the architecture based on brushes any longer? Or are those all more or less models, with clever (real-time (in the editor)) texture layering?

Alas id still does not seem to go for foliage, the shots show a bit of grass and that is pretty much it ...

Update: Just watched what Carmack had to say... he pretty much said it, for the "non-professional" folks Rage will be tough, when you want to create something that does not totally look like cr*p. And the good old "simple" brush modeling seems to be gone as well. So if you don't know how to use a professional modeling editor, you'll probably end up moving around existing content. That makes me wonder: Is the terrain editable? Or is it also a "model" that cannot be changed directly in the "game editor"?

[Castle]

I have the feeling - from looking at the massive amounts of detail in the screenshots - that id tech 5 is definitely going pro-artists, contra-armature "hacks". I.e. only vaguely "artistic" folks, like myself, might be able to make maps look quite "interesting" by clever abstractions in design, creating a convincing, though far from realistic worlds. With Rage it seems you can no longer cover up a lack in artistic skills, because it seems to be based on reality too much.

Is the architecture based on brushes any longer? Or are those all more or less models, with clever (real-time (in the editor)) texture layering?

Alas id still does not seem to go for foliage, the shots show a bit of grass and that is pretty much it ...

Update: Just watched what Carmack had to say... he pretty much said it, for the "non-professional" folks Rage will be tough, when you want to create something that does not totally look like cr*p. And the good old "simple" brush modeling seems to be gone as well. So if you don't know how to use a professional modeling editor, you'll probably end up moving around existing content. That makes me wonder: Is the terrain editable? Or is it also a "model" that cannot be changed directly in the "game editor"?

Its hard to say really.
If you take an engine like UT3 or even the construction set/Geck I can definitely see what you are saying. using models in creative ways and being able to build interesting geometry with creative use of existing assets is very powerful.

Going off of what I know about previous tech like ETQW and the concept of mega textures being applied to a wider variety of assets I cant help but agree with your concerns. In ETQW I do believe that the terrain was made up of large non-modular pieces. I guess time will tell *shrugs*

edit: I have no advanced knowledge of the new tech when I said the above.