CSS/Web Monkeys (help needed)

[obsidian]

I hate Internet Explorer.

I have a webpage that I'm working on and for some reason the menu float property isn't working properly on IE. Works fine on Firefox and Safari, it only messes up on POS Explorer. For the life of me, I can't figure out why, it's pretty standard.

Website:
http://www.robotrenegade.com/radiant/

CSS file:
http://www.robotrenegade.com/radiant/_css/default.css

[mjrpes]

It's because IE (< 8) by default sets width of li element to 100% of parent. Solution is to make li inline....

#header ul li {
display: inline;
}

FYI: transparent png isn't transparent in IE6. There is a easy solution to this that you can find here:

http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/

[mjrpes]

Also, I didn't figure this out until playing around with the css. It was clear once I started setting background colors of ul, then the li elements. I use a harsh #0f0 or #f00 to make it stand out When I run into css problems this is how I start out troubleshooting things and it usually helps pinpoint the problem pretty quickly... I'd recommend doing this if you run into problems in the future.

I also recommend this awesome tool for debugging in multiple versions of IE:

http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage

[obsidian]

Thanks, that works.

Also thanks for the PNG link... I was going to just say, "fuck you ancient browsers, welcome to 1999".

[GONNAFISTYA]

Nerds.

[Captain]

"derivitive"

lol

[MKJ]

the new iepngfx.htc is very awesome. workng ong tiling backgrounds

also, tip, you might want to include the emulate-ie7 meta, since ie8 fails at w3c a lot more than ie7 does

[Peenyuh]

Nerds.

[^misantropia^]

CSS isn't nerd.

[obsidian]

@mazda:

"I'm a grafix designr & artist"

lol

[Tsakali]

I fucking hate IE... if only people knew what shit of a browser it is and the amount of pointless suffering it inflicts on web designers. It really is insane how this fucking product completely ignores any set of coding standards ffs. I honestly don't understand how they keep releasing shit after shit version without bothering to address well known problems. For one, the lack of native png support without javascript spamming every fucking page should be downright considered a fucking crime.

[MKJ]

to be fair, the lack of png support was years ago (ie6). too bad so many people are still on ie6 :[

also, htc is not javascript.

[MKJ]

I also recommend this awesome tool for debugging in multiple versions of IE:

http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage

its pretty cool - i personally have different versions of IE installed.
too bad this app also doesnt support realtime DOM/css editing like firebug does >:R

[Grandpa Stu]

thankfully, with the release of windows 7, the death of IE6 is finally within sight. despite that though i dont see IE adopting the new CSS and HTML standards anytime soon. is there really any way in which MS profits from making such an esoteric browser?

i'm actually starting to find that a lot of people that i previously thought as "web stupid" are starting to use firefox. they even realize that bing is a MS product and after using it a couple times have decided it's cow dung.

perhaps i'm a bit optomistic since i'm relatively green to the whole web design scene but there definitely seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. sorta.

[MKJ]

about 20% is still on ie6. people thought the same thing when IE7 got forcedpushed to XP, or when people started to use Vista.

unfortunately there are still a lot of companies that run on win2k and therefore IE6, and all those employees who should be working are browsing on a prehistoric browser.
these people usually do not have the means to install an alternative, and the company's office automation department arent too happy to upgrade their entire infrastructure.

sure IE6 might disappear at some point, but then everyone will be stuck on the next old browser.

granted, IE7 is pretty good webwise. but after a while theyll all be on IE8 who again does so much wrong.

[DTS]

Maybe they use their phones now?

[MKJ]

do not underestimate the power of the luddites

[^misantropia^]

unfortunately there are still a lot of companies that run on win2k and therefore IE6

Hmm. I think most companies run XP but have these crappy intranet applications that only work in IE6, hence no chance of an update to 7 or 8 being rolled out.

[+JuggerNaut+]

^you are correct. We won't be implementing Win7 until Q1 2011.

[bitWISE]

To play devil's advocate a little, why even bother coding for IE6 if we all agree the only people really using it are intranet employees and your grandma?

[^misantropia^]

Because intranet employees and your grandma are potential customers?

[bitWISE]

If you explicitly know that, sure. But how many companies with a strict no software install policy give their users total freedom to surf the web?

[DTS]

If you explicitly know that, sure. But how many companies with a strict no software install policy give their users total freedom to surf the web?

Don't commercial webmasters have something in place to record what browser their page visitors are using, so they know if "potential customers" are using outdated browsers?

[MKJ]

also, not everything on the web is for everybody. some webapps are specifically built for a company, it should be working in IE6. then, perhaps some of them work from home so it should also work on their computers.

in the end tho, agreeing to ignore 20% of the population is not a valid solution

[mjrpes]

To play devil's advocate a little, why even bother coding for IE6 if we all agree the only people really using it are intranet employees and your grandma?

Well, you could take it on a case-by-case basis. In our case, ~11% of the people that came to our site recently used IE6. This is small enough that I don't care if the site doesn't look pixel perfect on IE6, but still large enough that I ensure it is at least decently viewable and not a complete mess.