ct3ctf1 by cityy (RC)

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cityy
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ct3ctf1 by cityy (RC)

Post by cityy »

Hello everybody! Like 8 hours ago I thought "why not make a ctf map" - yea well here it is.. =)

Download: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... alpha1.zip

Feedback:
- Layout and item placement

Screenshots:


[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0155.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0157.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0156.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0158.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0159.jpg[/lvlshot]

Enjoy, cityy. :)
Last edited by cityy on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by Anthem »

Too much time on your hands... :)

I will reply after I take a look.




Edit:

The suggestions are typed directly below the respective pictures. This is likely how I would have the layout of the map, which is why my suggestions seem declarative. They are just ideas to help your frame of mind in constructing this map, and hopefully I am able to spark some thought into the layout and design of the map.

Image

Red: The water is okay, but I feel it is necessary to put something of value in the water to make players use the passage. I recommend moving either red armor or mega health into the water.
Green: The railgun seems a bit out of place. I would move it into the room where the mega health is currently located (blue).
Blue: I recommend moving the mega health out of this room and either to the center or in the water (depending on where you move the red armor). I also recommend leaving the boxes out of the map. I feel they are an unnecessary obstacle, especially since there is no upper level onto which to walk onto the boxes.

Image

Replace the grenade with a shotgun. The shotgun is very essential weapon for close range.

Image
Image

Replace the Yellow armor with a 50 health and move it on the platform in the base (where the 25 health is located), or replace the 25 health with a 50 health.

Image

Move the railgun into the mega room and replace it with Red Armor or Mega Health. Also, replace the shotguns with plasma or grenade.

Image

I recommend making a bit more space between the flag and this wall.

This next change is rather crazy, but maybe you can make something out of it:

Image

Break a doorway into the wall (and make a small platform on the right of the water) that opens into a hallway that leads into the rocket launcher room.

Image

Move the jump pad to the right wall so there can be an opening from the hallway leading from the water.

On a side note, the jump pads push players a bit too high (I suspect that is because this is an alpha). Also, I feel it could be possible to replace the railgun with a rocket launcher if you feel so inclined. The rocket launcher is a very essential weapon, and it may be okay to have two spots for it. If you can find a way to approach that, then the change may be justified.

The layout shows promise. I'm surprised you were able to construct that so quickly after your competition entry. I look forward to future releases.
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cityy
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by cityy »

Just a small note about the water path with the TP: the reason for me not placing anything in the water is that this path is the quickest way into the base. Regarding flag runs this gets a big meaning because the flag carrier can a) get back to his base quickly and b) easily set up traps for the enemy player(s) chasing him.

Thanks for your feedback anthem - Im gonna wait fof more comments and then make a move as m competition entry is not finished yet anyway... =)
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Hipshot
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by Hipshot »

Mirrors edge...
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe
Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by Anthem »

cityy wrote:Just a small note about the water path with the TP: the reason for me not placing anything in the water is that this path is the quickest way into the base. Regarding flag runs this gets a big meaning because the flag carrier can a) get back to his base quickly and b) easily set up traps for the enemy player(s) chasing him.

Thanks for your feedback anthem - Im gonna wait fof more comments and then make a move as m competition entry is not finished yet anyway... =)
Gah, I miscalculated. You're completely right. :) Sorry for that error.
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ShadoW_86
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by ShadoW_86 »

Move MH in place of the 25h from your first screenshot, and put a 50h in old MH place. Change RA in bases for YA. Two RA, especially right in flag rooms are very odd. You can place ona RA in the middle (but don't know where yet), or drop it totally. After first look, those were the worst things, more after better playtest :).
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sumatra
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by sumatra »

I agree with most of the points which are already mentioned.


Things I additionally recognized:
- The Powerups are too close together and a RA in the base is too heavy.
- The overall floorplan seems to work good. Nice layout.
- I'm just wondering if the tele makes sense and doesn't make it too easy for th FC to capture.
- The LOS is very huge in some places. This should be solved IMO. :ninja:

Two examples:
Image Image


Here my item suggestion

Image

If you don't understand my sketches, ask me. It's just quick and dirty. :D

Anything else? Yea, have to say good work mate, keep it up! :up:
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by ShadoW_86 »

No - for 2xRG :). Right now it works really nice that you have LG on lower level, and RG on upper (in the middle). When coming to enemy base I have to a) take lower path to grab RG, and then move into enemy base (don't want to waste time to get back for RG), b) taking bridge and RG. So it's vety good that you have to choose wchich weapon you want to have, until you want to waste o lot of time. It's very nice.

After some games , I want to correct a little what I wrote earlier. Move MH into that ledge in flag room. In old place of MH, put YA. Remove RA and put there 50h. I think that it would be good to have one RA in the middle, but don't know where to put it right now. Maybe you could do some structural changes (small - it works fine now) in middle so there would be place for RA.

Overall, I really like this map. It has something from ctf1 - not too big, really fast gameplay, and from ctf3 and ql ctf maps (siberia, ironworks). Really promising ctf I belive. GJ ! ;).
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Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by Anthem »

ShadoW_86 wrote:No - for 2xRG :). Right now it works really nice that you have LG on lower level, and RG on upper (in the middle). When coming to enemy base I have to a) take lower path to grab RG, and then move into enemy base (don't want to waste time to get back for RG), b) taking bridge and RG. So it's vety good that you have to choose wchich weapon you want to have, until you want to waste o lot of time. It's very nice.

After some games , I want to correct a little what I wrote earlier. Move MH into that ledge in flag room. In old place of MH, put YA. Remove RA and put there 50h. I think that it would be good to have one RA in the middle, but don't know where to put it right now. Maybe you could do some structural changes (small - it works fine now) in middle so there would be place for RA.

Overall, I really like this map. It has something from ctf1 - not too big, really fast gameplay, and from ctf3 and ql ctf maps (siberia, ironworks). Really promising ctf I belive. GJ ! ;).
RA in the middle would definitely handle well. One of them needs to be near the flag for the defense players. The only reason I suggested having mega in the middle is because a lot of maps put RA in the middle. Either of them will do, and it's probably best to have RA in the middle since there seems to be more health and it will be fought over more easily. The thing about the teleporter is that it's a double trap. Not only will the player be victim to the water behind him or her as he or she tries to use the teleporter, but a player could spam grenades right into the teleport location hole and kill the player en teleport. The use of the teleport, however, seems to be overpowered for a player returning to his or her base with the flag. Using the teleport could effectively cut off almost all followers due to the water and the teleport location. I recommend re-evaluating it.

I also prefer the railgun in the (current) mega health room because it is typically used by defenders and mids. An offensive player likely won't use rail unless there is a standoff between bases (each has each other's flag). Therefore I feel it isn't as useful to be centralized as it is back in the base.
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cityy
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy

Post by cityy »

Alpha 2

Download: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... alpha2.zip

Changes:
- replaced RG with RA
- replaced MH with RG
- replaced PG with 25
- replaced RA with MH
- replaced base 25 with YA
- slightly changed the base layout
- changed the layout of the old MH room

Feedback:
- item placement
- layout
- bot play

Screenshot:

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0163.jpg[/lvlshot]

-cityy
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Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Anthem »

It seems to me that the only way to place mega health out of a direct route to the flag would be to replace the base YA above the tele with it. Remove the second YA or find a secluded place for it. If you can't find an area in which to house the second YA then you can compensate with a few armor shards throughout the map. But really, such a small map hardly needs two YAs. Perhaps replace the small healths (5s) in the water path (not tele) to the base with armor shards, and replace the shards up top with small healths (5s) since they are close to the YA. Thats about 75 armor per ~30 second period since armor respawns every 25 seconds.

Also, it would be nice to have something in the water trap by the tele. Perhaps some health (25 or 50) at the very bottom to make it semi-useful for a defender to restock health. Otherwise the water just serves as a trap. Evaluate the map "Ironworks" from Quake Live. Even though there is a water trap there is still a major item in that area (red armor).

Another small nitpick: There are no bullets anywhere. Maybe one ammo box in each base would do. :D

Good job so far.
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ShadoW_86
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by ShadoW_86 »

Hmmm, tbh I enjoyed earlier version more :/. I dunno but somehow, at the beginning it was very fast multi-frag action map. Now it seems slower. Well, it's probably only me :). I really don't like the idea of having both MH & YA in the same room, and especially when it's flag room. Even less I like that MH (second after RA strongest item among non-pu) just lie on the floor, when common YA is placed in hard to get, own place. Plus, MH is exactly on the route: base to base, you don't even have to search for it. If you really want to have both those items in one room, swap them. Also I don't like that LG is placed like it's base/main weapon here (entry of the base+ ground level), while RL is almost hidden. You get LG with no effort, while you have to go after RL - and that's just wrong :). Replace one witch each other. I don'r really like the middle now (the bridge especially), but don't really know what to do with it atm. It's one big, empty box-type room with this strange shaped bridge in it. I think the map (bases looks really cool), simply deserve for better looking middle ground.
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Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Anthem »

Yeah, rocket should be more centralized than lightning. Although both are useful, rocket is much more essential to a good offensive player.
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cityy
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by cityy »

Did some quick work today.
[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0179.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0178.jpg[/lvlshot]
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Anthem
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Anthem »

Lovely, I'm happy you decided to work on it. :D
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phantazm11
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by phantazm11 »

I forgot to mention this on IRC:

90% of those textures in that shot are reddish brown.

If you are having trouble finding colors that fit well together, I found this cool site the other day that has a pre-built library of color combinations that work well together based on color theory. The site is called colorcombos.com. There are links to the Combo Library and a cool feature they call the Combo Tester on the tabs at the top of the page.

There are plenty of articles on color theory on the net, but I found this to be a cool little grab-and-go resource that really helps when you are stuck for ideas.
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Anthem »

phantazm11 wrote:I forgot to mention this on IRC:

90% of those textures in that shot are reddish brown.

If you are having trouble finding colors that fit well together, I found this cool site the other day that has a pre-built library of color combinations that work well together based on color theory. The site is called colorcombos.com. There are links to the Combo Library and a cool feature they call the Combo Tester on the tabs at the top of the page.

There are plenty of articles on color theory on the net, but I found this to be a cool little grab-and-go resource that really helps when you are stuck for ideas.

*City adds that neat little site to his site for advertisement.

Also, on a side note for your site, City: That TGA thumbnail viewer is just beyond epic. You made a small mistake in the URL, though. you made it hhttp://, so firefox was like WTF is this???

:D

I've always liked grey/faded green or blue mixed with red. I also like contrasting colors like Blue and Orange, but that's just me being weird.
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cityy
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by cityy »

Thanks guys, I'm gonna work on it when I find motivation. :toothy: Thanks for reporting the site issue Anthem, I fixed it.
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cityy
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by cityy »

Looking for a skybox.. anyone with an idea?

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0182.jpg[/lvlshot]
http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... ot0183.jpg
http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... ot0181.jpg
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sumatra
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by sumatra »

What about the brown tones of Elbrus from Speedy. You could tweak the box with adding a real sun, or some clouds.

Image

http://quakewiki.net/archives/speedy/stuff.htm
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obsidian
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by obsidian »

Whatever happened to speedy?
[size=85][url=http://gtkradiant.com]GtkRadiant[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com]Q3Map2[/url] | [url=http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com/docs/shader_manual/]Shader Manual[/url][/size]
Tabun
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Tabun »

Colorcombos is neat, didn't know that one -- I always use:
http://www.colorjack.com/sphere/
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sumatra
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by sumatra »

I always use Kuler from Adobe. :olo:

Well, forgot to mention that I like the style you're going, but keep in mind not to make all tone in tone. Especially for high-picmip players it's hard to distinguish edges/trims or floors/ceilings/walls.

@Obsidian: Dunno, but he made really nice Skyboxes, especially the scifi ones.
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Pat Howard
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by Pat Howard »

Looking really nice, cityy. I love the bricks around those doors. All the textures really look great.
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Re: ct3ctf1 by cityy (alpha 2)

Post by cityy »

Thanks for the feedback guys, the color shemes tools have been helping me quite a bit. For now I decided to use the skybox I used on ct3tourney2 but without the lightning effect.

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0186.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ct3ctf1/shots/shot0187.jpg[/lvlshot]
http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... ot0185.jpg

Still _a lot_ of work to be done..
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