kazdm6 alpha 1

[Kaz]

You can test this map out online with Q3 1.32c at: /connect mapping.maverickservers.com (note: you may have to /callvote map kazdm6, if you play a match it'd be awesome if I could get a demo :P)

Here's a smallish 3-atrium 1v1 map I've been playing with for a few days, I'd like to hear some thoughts on the gameplay/layout/item placement, as well as stuff like TP exit placement.

Screenshots:

[Anthem]

I will take a look later tonight after I check out Phantazm11's new alpha. Reserved for editing.

[deqer]

i didn't read your post, but that top view looks sweet!

[VolumetricSteve]

I tried /connect mapping.maverickservers.com and got "couldn't load maps/kazdm6.bsp"

this seems like an awesome way to beta a map...I might wanna try this if I can figure out what's up with my problem.

I'm using ioquake3 1.36 (or whatever the latest release is) but as far as I know that's supposed to connect to the 1.32c servers

[mrd]

Hey Kaz, had a quick run around with some bots for about 15 minutes, here are some thoughts:

Tried a 1-on-1 with a bot for about five minutes and right away it felt just a little on the large side for 1v1. Maybe because it's a new map to me it just felt bigger than it really was, but it seemed like I spent more time hunting around than chasing/fighting. It seems better suited as a small 3-5 person FFA, to me. The jump-pads all kinda suck, give them a bit more gusto. The JP from the red armor I had to hit about 4 times before I was just barely able to ledge up (is that on purpose?) and the one near the YA isn't much better. Couldn't make the jump to the RG, but I won't profess to be a straffle master (was only doing a single jump, didn't try running up to it.) I didn't really like the teleporters, either of them. The one near the RA defeats the purpose of risk vs. reward aspect that is usually inherent to those areas in 1v1 maps. My idea for that area would be to cut out the JP entirely, and then to copy your design of the one wall where you have angled "catchers" lined up in between poles that force you down into the pit to the other far wall. To say it another way, make both (or all!) walls have that little trap aspect that might force you down there. I think this might make the map flow better because once people fall down, they have to move to another area of the map instead of just bouncing up again. Also, an idea for the large curved hallway leading from the RL to the MH/LG area: I noticed you have a ledge that is mostly unreachable that follows the wall of the hallway, you could try expanding the RG area or LG/MH area to allow plays to drop down onto this ledge and follow the hallway from a vantage point. Or perhaps make it accessible from only one side (LG/MH?) and then when they get to the RL, just make a hole in the wall and they are forced to drop down. The lava pit beside the shotty just seemed odd to me. *shrug* An idea for near the YA/RG area, you could drop in a short hallway that connects the RG ledge to an opening in wall above the JP that leads to the YA, so that players near the YA could lob grenades in there whilst hiding behind the wall... or sneaky bastard RG players can snipe people trying for the YA. The item layout didn't seem too bad. A few comments... that upper corner hallway above the SG (the one near the MH) feels a bit awkward and bulky. Could try connecting it over to the RA room? Or maybe put a 25 health in there (drop out the 5 health globes and perhaps relocate shards if you do this) to make it a bit more alluring. Or, throw in some windows along the walls so there is more opportunity for some action, rather than waiting for someone to peak around through the doorway. The weapon layout itself seemed good to me. Perhaps too many... might want to consider taking out the PG or LG.

Anyway, that's all I got. Cool map, reminds me of Quake1 for some reason ...probably the texturing, which I assume is basic for now while you work on the layout Keep us posted, hope it helps.

[v1l3]

I read what mrd said about it being a little bit too large for a tourney map. I saw the ramp by one of the lava spots, it influenced me to enable promode physics which I haven't done in a while ... as terrible as that sounds coming from me. The map is perfectly sized for tourney when your bunnyhopping around the corners instead of walking around. It all lines up perfectly.
The larger thing that I liked about it, was that it's a very vertical map. No one makes maps like this these days, so I thought that it was fun to play. I don't have anything technical to say at this point. You gave me a reason to make a reply after a months ... a new map!

[VolumetricSteve]

*tempted to think of different ways to get into that server*

I wanna play...what Quake 3 versions are people using to connect to it?

[ShadoW_86]

Layout looks really fine for first build. Actually map is quite big (for 1v1 map), but it's big in good way. I like large 1v1 maps, don't change that :P. While I like it, it's good idea to make some parts of it a little bit smaller - like corridors. Right now it's RG heaven in rooms and LG heaven in corridors. Just look at best maps (ztn is best example in your case), it has big rooms and small corridors, so player can/must/should actually use all weapons during the game.
What I don't like is that you have PG/SG/LG in MH area, while only GL (and SG near) in RA area. Also PG is just right next to SG . Also, I really don't think there is a need for two SG, so the best solution to all problems will be removing SG from MH area.

[VolumetricSteve]

Slightly off-topic but how do you set up a server that responds on a DNS entry as opposed to an ip address?

I see yours it like:

/connect mapping.maverickservers.com

and I'm hoping to set up something like that, or is it really complicated/expensive?

Thanks.

[dichtfux]

It has nothing to do with the Quake server, just make the DNS name point to the IP of the box. If you don't have a domain (which usually is ~ $1 or $2 per month) you can get a free subdomain at various free DNS providers (like your-name-here.dyndns.org).

[Kaz]

Sorry for my complete lack of a response to this - I'm being hammered with finals I've definitely read the responses, though, and I'll try to post again here as soon as I have changed some things around. Thanks!

[Kaz]

Tried a 1-on-1 with a bot for about five minutes and right away it felt just a little on the large side for 1v1.

This is a common point that most people have made and I'll have to agree with it - even though there are height differences a decent chunk of the time was spent fighting horizontally across a hallway.

The jump-pads all kinda suck, give them a bit more gusto. The JP from the red armor I had to hit about 4 times before I was just barely able to ledge up (is that on purpose?) and the one near the YA isn't much better.

Are you using vq3? I'm not sure about this one - the target_positions are in the direction you're supposed to travel, and a full 64 units above the destination floor.

I didn't really like the teleporters, either of them. The one near the RA defeats the purpose of risk vs. reward aspect that is usually inherent to those areas in 1v1 maps. ... To say it another way, make both (or all!) walls have that little trap aspect that might force you down there. ...

I wanted both the MH and RA areas to have a trap aspect to them, but my reasoning behind the TP's was to give the person who grabs the item a number of choices of exit. With the RA - you have a choice between turning around, going up a tall JP (dangerous), and hopping over a pit of lava to get to a somewhat safer TP exit (you have some cover with the columns). I think that the JP is -too- tall, and that the TP isn't risky enough to discourage its use - I'm actually not sure how well my implementation of the idea would play out in actual human games (or if the idea is even interesting). I like the idea of having a trap of some sort though.

*Curved hallway suggestion*

Are you suggesting a setup ala q3dm6's RG ledge? I'll keep that in mind when I'm reworking things.

Lava pit is odd/RG and YA connection

I agree and nice idea! I might try that out...

I appreciate the lengthy feedback and quick reply - sorry for not having the same quick turnaround :P

[mrd]

Are you using vq3? I'm not sure about this one - the target_positions are in the direction you're supposed to travel, and a full 64 units above the destination floor.

Yeah, VQ3. They seemed very weak. Not too sure what could be causing this if you say they are 64 units above...

I'm actually not sure how well my implementation of the idea would play out in actual human games (or if the idea is even interesting). I like the idea of having a trap of some sort though.

Well, if you want to keep a TP, I suggest making it harder to get to. In my games, I made the jump every time. Didn't seem like a risk at all, just an easy way out with +100 armor. Maybe make it a bit higher up or further away, or both (or get rid of it )

Are you suggesting a setup ala q3dm6's RG ledge? I'll keep that in mind when I'm reworking things.

Essentially yeah, but a bit smaller in scale. Just a quick, easily-accessed route (like I said, maybe only from one side) that could enable a bit of gun-play.

Let us know when you post a new version.

[dichtfux]

I never liked the idea of teleporters near important items like RA. Some cpm maps have this and it's the only thing I found strange about these maps.

I mean what's the point? The guy who grabbed the powerful stuff can 1) escape easily and 2) surprise people who are near the tele exit.

[sumatra]

I never liked the idea of teleporters near important items like RA. Some cpm maps have this and it's the only thing I found strange about these maps.

I mean what's the point? The guy who grabbed the powerful stuff can 1) escape easily and 2) surprise people who are near the tele exit.

I see this issue the same way.
I always try to place the strongest items in places that are dangerous, or at least its hard to escape from.

[Anthem]

The point of it is to place the item near an exit that will lead the player to a predictable area. That is where the risk is. In q3 Phrantic, the teleporter by the Mega Health sends the player high above the center area. A well placed spam of rockets could remove that mega health and more especially on CPM.

[dichtfux]

I guess the problem exists for all teleporters that lead to a destination you can't see from the entry point.

If you can see / shoot the exit from the tele entry area (like the one in phrantic, which may be the best tele in any q3a map) it is fine I guess. If not, it sucks.