New EP mission by CZghost - Training Center

[CZghost]

I'm making new Entity Plus mission similar to Eraser's Testing Procedures, but more depthed. It may contain 5 levels, from beginning to ending... It's like a Testing Procedures 2, or similar project... Have made informative messages, will make also some other textures especialy for models (like toilets)...

This mission will include many secrets. Many of them may be simply shooted by a weapon, many will be unlocked by keys...

Will take a care also for the sounds, to make very realistic environment... Want to hear the elevator drowning? Or want to hear water dripping? Many sounds may be included in this mission as well...

Check the main post in this topic, may be actualised by the screenshots and the final release...

And a question for Eraser:
What software have you used to make the voice guiding us through the Testing Procedures? I might make similar (but man's) voice that explore you through the levels step by step... Is it free? I might not use software that expires after few days...
Use the quote system, for that question, I might delete it after answer...

[Tanica46]

and what is with this Map ?
http://maverickservers.com/forums/viewt ... 23&t=17479

Software for Sound
Audio Record from your Windows OS.

or

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/?lang=de

[CZghost]

DEVELOPING ABORTED - technical issues (GIMP)
The map will be never released. I'm sorry to say it off, but the technical issues have delayed my work a lot... Good luck and I'd be happy to see winning map

Have you read it?

I was asking Eraser, not you. Only Eraser knows the software he used to the voice creation...
I think it's something similar to text2speach software...

[Tanica46]

"The map will be never released. I'm sorry to say it off, but the technical issues have delayed my work a lot... Good luck and I'd be happy to see winning map"

what kind of an excuse?

This is the radiant.

everything is possible.

you just need to know "how"

[CZghost]

I had technical issues with GIMP 2.8, that prog have shown many errors with startup so I had to shut down it by Task Manager...

That issue delayed my work a lot, so I decided to abort developing that level and wait for next mapping competition (if any will be)... Now I can give you chance to try out my Entity Plus level inspired by the Testing Procedures mission made by Eraser...

Will accept any critical feedback, but I tell you now, that release might be final, if there may be critical issues shutting whole mission, please tell me and I'll update it... Mission may have 5 levels (which is total blast off, other two released have 3 levels, the example mission is only 1 level), which may slow down the update a bit. Accept it, make 5 levels of mission is a work for few weeks, maybe months...

@Eraser: How did you make the voice in Testing Procedures? By text2speech software? How to get it and is it free?

[Noruen]

this must be some kind of nightmare...

[Eraser]

I used Cepstral text-to-speech software for it: http://www.cepstral.com
It's not free. It inserts commercial messages into the generated audio, but you can cut around that in audio editing software.

Also, if GIMP is giving you problems, try Paint.NET

[CZghost]

this must be some kind of nightmare...

If you mean the playability, it's right the oppose... It may be playable for the noobs

I used Cepstral text-to-speech software for it: http://www.cepstral.com
It's not free. It inserts commercial messages into the generated audio, but you can cut around that in audio editing software.

Also, if GIMP is giving you problems, try Paint.NET

These technical issues have gone after copying all DLL files from bin folder to WINDOWS/system32 directory...
I'm currently ok with GIMP, it only have some problems with export presets, I believe there's any solution about it...

The text2speech software commercial messages. That may be no problem, I have Audacity to edit sounds...
I'm downloading David's voice, maybe it's the same voice as the Q3's If not, I will simply make also the basic announcement messages like "prepare to fight", "three" "two" "one", etc...

If you will include respawn effect in the next release (it's simple teleport, but at start of the "playing"), except of player playing the mission (only bots they're added in the game), I'll be pretty fine...

[CZghost]

Hello again.

Eraser, you know the modification functinality the best. Is there any chance to disable lightmap (or regule the intesity to minimum)? Because of that I can make the lights disappear from the level also with the light emmiting...

It may make nice effect of separately turning lights off, which is the real effect on the world (not only straightly go into black)... If it's possible to disable only some parts of lightmap, there's also chance to keep sun light (emmited from sky)...

Have made proper sounds to avoid the atmosphere... Will download and make other, like elevator moving sounds and others...

[Eraser]

Unfortunately such things cannot be done in a mod, you'd need to make modifications in the rendering engine as well for that.

What you might be able to do is emulate the effect by doing some shader tricks. EntityPlus allows you to add/remove geometry from the world by turning brushes into a func_static and triggering it through a target_unlink entity. If you create the same geometry twice and toggle between them then you can have one of the geometry sets with a shader with lightmap stage and the other with a shader without lightmap stage (or something like that).

I know r3t did something similar in his State Prison 36 map, where there's a flickering light somewhere. I think he applied an rgbGen or alphaGen on his lightmap stage though, so the shader does the animating itself. You can probably extract the shader from that.

The only downside is that the lightgrid won't be affected, so if a light turns out, all entities, including the gun in your hand is still lit as if the light's turned on.

[themuffinman]

It should be possible to make an equivalent of Q2's target_lightramp by only modifying vm's. The entity allows you to fade in/out any targeted lights... a good example of it in action is in ware2 where you power up the lights with power cubes. As far as a know it just works like a dynamic light.

Then QUAKED light would need to be edited to have a similar functionality as in Q2 for toggling on/off when targeted and using light styles, and of course getting rid of the G_FreeEntity( self );. When compiling a map you'd possibly need to use the "_keeplights" "1" key in the worldspawn so that ent lights aren't removed.

[Eraser]

Still, from within the vm you don't have access to the lightmaps or the lightgrid, do you? I wouldn't be surprised if Quake2's lightramp functionality had direct hooks into the rendering engine.

[CZghost]

So I'll just use black overlay... It sucks, but it's simple to use... Thank you for advice...

Oh, could you tell me, where to find some elevator sounds like door moving and elevator itself moving? At freesound I cannot find usable samples...

Eraser, you have used sounds they're all-in-one (start, moving and end in one file). Sure to be used separately in the mission?

[Eraser]

Yeah in some cases I used a single wav file but in most cases I used separate wav files. Where I used a single wav file the source material was too hard to cut up while keeping the moving sound as seamless loop.

[CZghost]

Yeah. Maybe I'll look at some seamless points in the single wav to make it separate... I'm fan of looping while moving. If it's separated into three small sound files, then pk3 isn't too large to keep playability at maximum framerate...

If it's too hard, I'll use them as they are...

[CZghost]

The mod supports dynamic lights on trains (trains emmiting lights don't subscribe that light into the lightmap, they emmit lights directly), so it's possible to make lights moving around. But how about the lights in other group entities (such as func_door or func_bobbing)? Is it possible to emmit dynamic lights also there?

I'd use it for the elevators, but seem to be broken.
Oh, and the func_static emmiting dynamic light?

Maybe you can add dynamic light entity to next release of Entity Plus (entity dlight as it's in RtCW) to make flickering lights.
There's the link to the entity definition of the entity: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/76484093/Quake ... nition.txt
First is the definition for GTK Radiant 1.4 and 1.6, second is the XML version for GTK Radiant 1.5 to be used...

[themuffinman]

Maybe you can add dynamic light entity to next release of Entity Plus (entity dlight as it's in RtCW) to make flickering lights.
There's the link to the entity definition of the entity: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/76484093/Quake ... nition.txt
First is the definition for GTK Radiant 1.4 and 1.6, second is the XML version for GTK Radiant 1.5 to be used...

That's basically the same as what I suggested - the lightramps use dynamic lighting too and can even function with light styles. And yes, I stand corrected by Eraser - Q2 does have some extra code in the engine to make it work. It's just a pity Eraser won't go all the way with EntityPlus and mod the engine too - it'd allow for far more possibilities when adding features to the mod, but I guess the idea is to keep it simple.

[CZghost]

Eraser, do you know the enabledust and enablebreath are already presented in Team Arena?
If you have included these features, it's also possible to include Team Arena items as well.
Team Arena is just a Quake 3 modification as others, just commercial (which reminds me the contents of the mod is protected by copyright law, so it's not possible to implement them in free modification like EntityPlus, unless the author have bought permissions for use them in the project)...

[CZghost]

That's basically the same as what I suggested - the lightramps use dynamic lighting too and can even function with light styles. And yes, I stand corrected by Eraser - Q2 does have some extra code in the engine to make it work. It's just a pity Eraser won't go all the way with EntityPlus and mod the engine too - it'd allow for far more possibilities when adding features to the mod, but I guess the idea is to keep it simple.

The dlight entity what's presented in RtCW probably has its own lump in the RtCW engine, which allows to use that entity.

In the readme file I have read all func_* entities except for func_group have been fixed for the light emmiting. It emmits lights, that aren't part of the lightmap, which allows to move the lights around, just like a dynamic lights emmited from a fired rocket. But when used light key on func_door (to make lighted elevator), the light wasn't been ommited or the light is emmited only for the outside of the entity. That means the light emmited from the entity doesn't appear on the brushes of entity itself.

Any brush-based entities use the lightmap, too. So it may be possible to make light entity at the initial point to make the elevator lighted properly. But I'd use the light to make bright also the visible part of the elevator outside (the area the elevator moves inside). Maybe through the func_train entity that moves with the same speed as the elevator. I know the func_train entity can be used for lights flying around (just as seen in the Testing Procedures in the laser room, or the exit corridor in example map...)

[Eraser]

Q3's dynamic lights are multiplicative, which means that a dynamic light can't light up a surface that's dark so that won't work for the idea of turning on lights in an otherwise dark room.

[Eraser]

It's just a pity Eraser won't go all the way with EntityPlus and mod the engine too - it'd allow for far more possibilities when adding features to the mod, but I guess the idea is to keep it simple.

For me the engine source code is a bit like Pandora's box. I have no experience at all with 3D programming or the programming side of technologies like BSP and such. I am probably not a competent enough graphics programmer to be of any worth in modifying the engine. My baseline stance of keeping the exe unmodified is a good enough excuse to not having to open up that pit of horrors. If someone wants to implement changes that require a custom exe, be my guest, but I'm not going to do it. It scares me

Oh, another excuse is that I wanted to keep it as much Quake 3 as possible. Because of that reason I'm also hesitant towards adding new weapons or items. I'm afraid modifying the exe will push it away from remaining true to Q3 too much.

[Eraser]

Eraser, do you know the enabledust and enablebreath are already presented in Team Arena?
If you have included these features, it's also possible to include Team Arena items as well.

enabledust and enablebreath are available in E+. I used the Team Arena code for that. I haven't included the TA weapons or items because, as you said, the assets are owned by id Software and may not be redistributed.

[CZghost]

Q3's dynamic lights are multiplicative, which means that a dynamic light can't light up a surface that's dark so that won't work for the idea of turning on lights in an otherwise dark room.

Yeah. I have realised that when built a map with these dynamic lights appeard. Tried to build up a switcher (just two triggers, each at opposed sides of the room). Lights was set on 100. At the spawn it showed circles at the ceiling moving around. When turned off by one of the triggers, room becomed dark with a minimum light set to 15 (and min dynamic lightning set to 25). When turned on again by the other trigger, lights became a lot brighter than at the spawn (meaning it have lighted also floor and the walls). Instead of the lightning the texture applied to the brushes, it have added the light at the surface, so the texture was brighter, but not fully visible in the details.

As you have written multiplicative, you probably meant additive or overlayed lightning... Multiplicative is darkening, additive is lightnening and overlay mode is combined multiplicative and additive which results in flatten colors...

Maybe I'll light the room with relatively strong light, but darker color (meaned less than bright white but more than neutral gray (0.5 0.5 0.5), such as 0.6 0.6 0.6)...
This will light the room with relatively acceptable light, but it may be dark enough to light the room properly with dynamic lights. Because the lightmap is mapped behind multiplied texture (or the texture is mapped behind multiplied lightmap), it may light up the relatively dark texture with a sense of overbrights... This may happen when brightening by additive light. If the dynamic lightning is overlayed (darkening and brightening combined), it won't work, it just flattens the color of the texture applied and adds constant light to it (which is unliked)...

[CZghost]

enabledust and enablebreath are available in E+. I used the Team Arena code for that. I haven't included the TA weapons or items because, as you said, the assets are owned by id Software and may not be redistributed.

You can relatively use that assets in your work if you regularly ask ID Software for that with a positive response (maybe add some money, Team Arena was released as commercial modification, which costs money) and if you write ID Software as author if these assets. But it's a kinda of a dream, that cannot be realised unless you have lots of money (meaned more than $1,000,000) to buy the permission to use Team Arena contents in your work. That may also mean making your mod commercial, because of the money loss.

It's the why we won't see Team Arena powerups, items and weapons with their ammo in EP. enabledust and enablebreath are freely avaible in source code of Quake 3, so it's what I first realised there's also possible to use codes for the TA items as well as their assets. Oh, I have missed the right a lot...

[CZghost]

@Eraser:
I'm going to start making the mission. What I want to say is, that the mission is HIGHLY inspired by your Testing Procedures. In other words, you can recognise some parts you have already made, it's something like a Testing Procedures II... Be sure this level have more to play (5 levels in use), there are some parts from your original release missing, but many new have appeard. This level is going to be the same theme, but in larger depth. For example, timer doors or the walk only tests were ommited, maze is realy maze (meaning you cannot see the finish side of the room), and you might then solve also other logic tests, such as 3D vision test... As I said, there may be many things to play with...

@all:
I'm sure you'll enjoy the level... I'm making it for you. I might to play my levels a bit, but all makes levels for others to play...
I'm sorry I haven't released any version of my mavcomp level, but my new GIMP installation haven't boot up and it delayed this work a lot, over 3-4 weeks. So ti was unable to continue in the developing, that's because I have decided to stop woking at and abort my competition subscription... But it's offtopic, so stop about that excuse...